Another Static Electricity Question...

[Super TWiT]

When I am inside my amiga 500, I attach the alligator clip of my wrist strap to the floppy drive casing, where the keyboard is grounded. I don't leave computers plugged in when I work on them because I feel the risk is greater that you short something due to unrealized electricity, and prefer to subscribe to the theory that because you clipped yourself to the computer you and the computer are at the same static potential. But today I thought "I really want to be at the same static potential as the components I am working on, not the case. How can this be effective?" Could someone answer my question?

[Zac67]

Just about all chips require a ground connection, so that'll make sure the differential between electronic components and case ground is very close to zero.

[Super TWiT]

Even the casing of a floppy drive?

[jj]

I have never ever in my enitre life used a strap and have never had anything damage, even over time.
 
Find just grounding myself on  some heating pipes first is sufficient.

[TheBilgeRat]

Same here-I touch something like a sink faucet.  I also live in an area that has little to no static buildup (PNW), tho

[outlawal2]

Part of my job is hardware support of PC's and Server equipment.  It is a very good practice to ground yourself when working on equipment.  For those that say you have never hurt your equipment before, you may be correct.. And you also may be wrong. Unfortunately, the damage can be done to chips without being noticeable for months...  (Really, no kidding)  Then all of a sudden the chip goes kaplooey. (Technical term that i may just copyright soon. :O)

Anyway, grounding is a good idea, but if you don't plug the PC into the wall socket you are not truly grounded at all and have wasted your time with the alligator clip...  The ground must be plugged into a wall socket to work, so here is a trick I learned years ago.  Take a standard three prong plug and remove both prongs from it with a pair of pliers.. Be sure to LEAVE the ground prong..  Now when you plug it in, only the ground is plugged in and your machine is fully grounded.  Now take your gator clip and clip it to the frame of the machine.  (Don't trust the floppy drive as you may not have a good connection to the frame... Also you don't know if the floppy is aluminum.. If it is you won't get any ground off it.)

[Super TWiT]

I can't really sand down the power connector on an amiga though, but that is a good tip for pcs with interchangeable cords. I was just wondering how the case and computer components could be at the same static potential? By the way, the amiga 500s keyboard is actually grounded to the floppy drive case by way of a screw on cable, so I assume it is a good grounding point.

[outlawal2]

By the way, the amiga 500s keyboard is actually grounded to the floppy drive case by way of a screw on cable, so I assume it is a good grounding point.

Good point...  That should be a good ground then... But only if the plug is plugged into the wall...
Hmmmm..  Not really sure how to ground that one without the removable cord. (I have a 2000 and it does have the removable cord)

[Tomas]

I have never ever used any protection against static electricity.
I have "built" my own computers since i was a young teen in the 90s and yet never any harm done. I have also picked up hardware at the local scrapyard/electronic rycycling center and even the motherboards i found laying lose in containers and such worked just fine.

I think the risk of static damage is highly exaggerated, but i guess it is never a bad idea to be extra careful with rare or expensive hardware.

I also often find ram and such recycling centers and generally just put them into my pockets without any kind of static bag and yet those ram sticks worked just fine.

[Tomas]

Part of my job is hardware support of PC's and Server equipment.  It is a very good practice to ground yourself when working on equipment.  For those that say you have never hurt your equipment before, you may be correct.. And you also may be wrong. Unfortunately, the damage can be done to chips without being noticeable for months...  (Really, no kidding)  Then all of a sudden the chip goes kaplooey. (Technical term that i may just copyright soon. :O)

Anyway, grounding is a good idea, but if you don't plug the PC into the wall socket you are not truly grounded at all and have wasted your time with the alligator clip...  The ground must be plugged into a wall socket to work, so here is a trick I learned years ago.  Take a standard three prong plug and remove both prongs from it with a pair of pliers.. Be sure to LEAVE the ground prong..  Now when you plug it in, only the ground is plugged in and your machine is fully grounded.  Now take your gator clip and clip it to the frame of the machine.  (Don't trust the floppy drive as you may not have a good connection to the frame... Also you don't know if the floppy is aluminum.. If it is you won't get any ground off it.)

Either way i have never had hardware except for PSU or hard drives die on me which was completely unrelated. Even the mobo i told about in my previous post i used for years with no stability problems even though both ram, sound card and mobo was all found in trash.
The pc i am currently using has a audigy ZS 2 card i found laying in a muddy water pit and it worked just fine after some cleaning and has not caused any stability issues whatsoever.

[outlawal2]

Either way i have never had hardware except for PSU or hard drives die on me which was completely unrelated. Even the mobo i told about in my previous post i used for years with no stability problems even though both ram, sound card and mobo was all found in trash.
The pc i am currently using has a audigy ZS 2 card i found laying in a muddy water pit and it worked just fine after some cleaning and has not caused any stability issues whatsoever.

Yep and everyone has to make their own decisions about such things, but multiple training courses and books etc. from different companies that actually manufacture the equipment all state that this is a legitimate issue.  My personal opinion is that if the folks that create the stuff says it can be an issue I will defer to their expert advice rather than someone that has simply been "lucky"...  

But who the Hell am I?  We all know those certs and courses and 20+ years of experience is just fluff anyway right?

[guest7146]

My personal opinion is that if the folks that create the stuff says it can be an issue I will defer to their expert advice rather than someone that has simply been "lucky"...  

But who the Hell am I?  We all know those certs and courses and 20+ years of experience is just fluff anyway right?

No, it is definitely not "fluff" and you are right to take precautions against static electricity.  The danger is very real, and can be tested very easily.  As you mentioned in one of your previous replies, it is possible to compromise a component by static discharge, rather than outright destroy it.  Indeed, I would suggest that this form of damage by poor handling is the most common.  After the component has been compromised, its reliability and long term life will have been reduced.  The amount to which the life has been reduced depends upon many factors, including but in no way limited to the strength of the static discharge itself.  

A lot of people will use the argument that they've been building electronics stuff for years without taking precautions and have never had a problem, but there is no way of verifying such statements.  A component that fails 6 months or even years down the line after providing reliable service up to that point will not be attributed to a static discharge due to poor handling because of the length of time that has passed.  But this does not mean that the problem was not caused by static discharge, it just means that the component's life may have been reduced, the result of which was premature failure.  A failure that would not have occurred had static precautions been taken.
I have seen evidence of the damage caused by static discharge, and I have also tested it myself.  It does happen.  Of course, it is possible to disregard anti-static precautions and see no ill effects, but why take the risk when  a wrist strap and grounding point is so cheap to buy? If you handle electronics components regularly and you don't take precautions then it's only a matter of time before damage results.  It doesn't make sense to take such risks in my opinion.

AH.

[guest7146]

I have never ever in my enitre life used a strap and have never had anything damage, even over time.
 
Find just grounding myself on  some heating pipes first is sufficient.

Yep, I would agree with this.  Grounding yourself on heating pipes is a valid precaution to take against static build up.  It's not as ideal as a wrist strap because a wrist strap will constantly protect against a static build up, but provided you ground yourself every time you sit down at your work desk and before you handle the board then the likelihood of static damage is greatly reduced.

AH.

[Zac67]

Even the casing of a floppy drive?

If you look closely you'll see that the two standoffs on the rear of the floppy go to two large pads on the mobo that are connected to ground. Electronics works way better if everything is severely grounded.
While we're at it: the thin metal shield around the mobo provides very good grounding. As has been mentioned, the drive may provide no reliable ground for an alligator clip due to paint/oxydization even though it's grounded.

I usually keep the wall socket plugged in but switch off the mains switch. That way grounding is intact while no power whatsoever is to be found. While working on the machine I stay in contact or very frequently touch metal parts. Also, not shuffling your feet and handling delicate parts by the edges only ensures that your stuff runs reliable for some time to come.

[motrucker]

To not ground yourself is just asking for a problem! Ground yourself to the best ground available, usually your properly grounded outlet - with a good quality wrist strap.
You would be amazed at how much voltage a static charge can have. The other values are usually very low, but this is enough to fry many chip types instantly.
I am always amazed at people who love to play with fire...

PS - 50,000 volts is possible! - 25,000 is fairly common. Think your chips can take that?