Brand-New Deneb - Trident errors out...

[outlawal2]

OK, received my new Deneb today and installed it per the instructions but when I try to run Trident, it errors out saying it can't load mui.library..  This needs mui to run...

What the heck?  Any ideas on how to fix this and why running the entire install as directed does not copy over all necessary files to use the hardware?

Pls advise...

[wawrzon]

jut download mui 3.8 user from archive aminet and install it bevor you run deneb software. simple as that.

[outlawal2]

Alrighty then I will do that....   As soon as I figure out HOW to do that since without the Deneb I can't get to the internet...  Makes downloading a fix somewhat problematic!

LOL

[Methuselas]

It's a safe assumption that you have a floppy drive. The MUI archive isn't very big and I'm sure that you could transfer a set of  .rar or .7z files via the floppy.

[Matt_H]

MUI is on pretty much every cover CD ever, if you have some of those kicking around. If not, you can work around your lack of MUI using the shell. Use AddUSBHardware and AddUSBClasses to get going (see the Poseidon docs for usage).

Although, if you don't have MUI, I'm not sure how you'll get online either (unless you use AWeb).

[save2600]

Excuse me for stating the obvious - but MUI and ANY other necessary programs, should be included with Deneb on a friggin' floppy or two or at the very least OR "hidden" inside the protected RAM on the card itself. DUH. The few people left supporting this platform on the level they do should have realized this loooooong ago. As if AmigaOS users don't have enough problems getting this expensive legacy shit to work on their systems without being forced to jump through cryptic hoops, eventually and accidentally getting this stuff to "almost" meet their expectations, if they're lucky.  

MUI? Magic User Interface?? First time I heard of that (early 2000's), I thought WTF? A program that sorta/kinda replaces Amiga GUI/Intuition or whatever - that seemingly does nothing different, takes forever to load and utilizes a squished screenmode. Great. I still don't understand why Trident *needs* this program in order to run - but I'm sure there's a good explanation - there always is.  lol

[marcfrick2112]

Yeah, I have to agree with you, Save2600 .... If MUI is needed, it should have been included with the software. Funny thing is, a number of commercial progs. DO come with all needed software. I'm pretty sure that DrawStudio had an option to install MUI.... Of course, I had MUI already.... Years ago, ordering from an Amiga PD place in Texas, I mentioned that I wanted to get online with my miggy someday, they just sent a disk of MUI 3.8 along with my order.....

[mboehmer_e3b]

Excuse me for stating the obvious - but MUI and ANY other necessary programs, should be included with Deneb on a friggin' floppy or two or at the very least OR "hidden" inside the protected RAM on the card itself. DUH. The few people left supporting this platform on the level they do should have realized this loooooong ago. As if AmigaOS users don't have enough problems getting this expensive legacy shit to work on their systems without being forced to jump through cryptic hoops, eventually and accidentally getting this stuff to "almost" meet their expectations, if they're lucky.  

In general, we decided to get rid of disks as they are no way of safely importing data to 20year old machines anymore. You don't get hands on real DD disks, and with "faked" DD disks (namely HD disks) old drives have shown more problems than you want to support.

Seems like you are unhappy. And honestly said, MUI can be expected to be installed as standard nowadays.

And even if it is not - if you simply insert the DENEB, a fail-safe Trident (Zorro II or Zorro III PIO) will automagically start from FlashROM. So you can easily (even if you have a broken disk drive, which is quite common also nowadays due to old hardware, or no disk drive at all) download the MUI archive on some PC and transfer it via USB stick to your Amiga. Of course, if you don't have fat95 installed... but sorry, we cannot provide a solution for every system out there.
Wait... for some reasons fat95 is also included in the FlashROM... seems we have also thought about this issue.

Oh, by the way, you don't need Trident to start that "expensive legacy shit" (nice expression, BTW). Apparently you didn't also take a look into that expensive legacy shit documentation which explains you easily on how to start Poseidon without MUI being installed.

So if you rely on the FlashROM autostarting Poseidon you can also avoid typing in the few lines needed to get Poseidon started in CLI/Shell.

Just to put this right: there *is* everything included in DENEB to get it into operation.

Just shaking head... you could have asked our support easily by mail, but you prefer to rant on that "expensive legacy shit" in a forum first. Not a very constructive way of handling things.

Anyway, if you still have problems with our "expensive legacy shit" products please feel free to contact us by mail, we try to help all customers as good as we can (and up to now, we could solve all problems, either by guiding people, or by releasing free firmware upgrade for our "expensive legacy shit" product to solve bugs in other hardware in our users systems).

Michael

[mboehmer_e3b]

Alrighty then I will do that....   As soon as I figure out HOW to do that since without the Deneb I can't get to the internet...  Makes downloading a fix somewhat problematic!

Poseidon can be started without MUI by only shell commands (as stated already in a different answer here).
Or you use the FlashROM feature to get a fully running Poseidon without any user install and/or intervention.
The DENEB is built in a way to add working USB support into the Amiga system without installing even a single file.

If you have a support USB ethernet dongle you *can* go online even without MUI (I mentioned the Poseidon AmigaGuide file already?).

BTW, without web brower you cannot download the MUI (or even worse: your web browser may also rely on MUI, or classact which may also be missing on your system). So even if we would include a disk with MUI, you would complain next on the "missing" web browser? Or the "missing" USB ethernet dongle?

Michael

[Tahoe]

@Michael
+1

No, I think the complaint may be that no TCP/IP stack is bundled with your legacy shit. Not even a Miami keyfile! You should at least have included that!

[save2600]

Miami and its keys... LOL! Oh c'mon. No real disrespect to Michael or his products. The phrase 'expensive legacy shit' is just tongue in cheek and wasn't even specifically directed to his gear. More like the computers themselves and the investment they represent. Just my dark humor. Didn't mean to infer that anything was "shit" or for anyone to get bent. Yes, the frustration level can be high at first. But after fiddle-screwing around, posting questions or dealing with manufacturers, we usually almost always end up getting whatever to work. The support that way cannot be denied and yes, we all appreciate the continued upgrades to firmware as well  

And for the record, I'm happy with any and all of these new products from Michael, Jens, Chris, etc. Support has been great, when/if I ever had a problem. Was mirroring the frustration of a new Deneb user is all. Just seems to be a pattern that crops up every month or so, why they have trouble getting it installed. Missing MUI program (whether it's missing on their hard drive or missing from the install software) is almost always the culprit. I just think it would be easier to include MUI in some shape or form than to be fielding the same issues time and time again.

[outlawal2]

Excuse me for stating the obvious - but MUI and ANY other necessary programs, should be included with Deneb on a friggin' floppy or two or at the very least OR "hidden" inside the protected RAM on the card itself. DUH. The few people left supporting this platform on the level they do should have realized this loooooong ago. As if AmigaOS users don't have enough problems getting this expensive legacy shit to work on their systems without being forced to jump through cryptic hoops, eventually and accidentally getting this stuff to "almost" meet their expectations, if they're lucky.  

MUI? Magic User Interface?? First time I heard of that (early 2000's), I thought WTF? A program that sorta/kinda replaces Amiga GUI/Intuition or whatever - that seemingly does nothing different, takes forever to load and utilizes a squished screenmode. Great. I still don't understand why Trident *needs* this program in order to run - but I'm sure there's a good explanation - there always is.  lol

Good Morning!  Thank you for that as I felt much the same way... (And interestingly enough I too am from Wisconsin!)  I will be tackling this issue later today as I have to borrow a floppy drive from work...

Reading some of the replies, it appears that I SHOULD be able to use a flash drive as well as a network dongle but I did try these and neither one works...  As for the documentation, using the enclosed install routines, docs seem to be strewn across the drive in multiple locations and frankly I didn't take the time to do an exhaustive search for them all yet..  I was hoping for a quick hit fix..   Anyway, I did not mean to cause any issues with my post and I didn't mean any disrespect...  

One thing I will mention though...  Someone mentioned that all installs today will have MUI installed...  Hmmmmm..  Unfortunately my machne is a freshly installed OS where I started with 3.1 and then upgraded to 3.5 and then upgraded to 3.9..   I would assume that everything required would have been installed somewhere along the way.  

It was not and this is the source of the frustration.  No huge deal but something to keep in mind when assuming an individual's configuration...

[jj]

From memory MUI is on the 3.9 cd

[CSixx]

MUI? Magic User Interface?? First time I heard of that (early 2000's), I thought WTF? A program that sorta/kinda replaces Amiga GUI/Intuition or whatever - that seemingly does nothing different, takes forever to load and utilizes a squished screenmode. Great. I still don't understand why Trident *needs* this program in order to run - but I'm sure there's a good explanation - there always is.  lol

Typical uninformed drivel...

[Crumb]

MUI? Magic User Interface?? First time I heard of that (early 2000's), I thought WTF? A program that sorta/kinda replaces Amiga GUI/Intuition or whatever - that seemingly does nothing different, takes forever to load and utilizes a squished screenmode. Great. I still don't understand why Trident *needs* this program in order to run - but I'm sure there's a good explanation - there always is.  lol

You had not hear about MUI until 2000? Were you hidding behind a rock? And what programs did you use in 2000 to connect to internet? Almost all Amiga internet software uses and used MUI. Didn't you use Miami, YAM, IBrowse, AmIRC, Amster (napster)...?

I guess you would also complain when a program required bgui, gtlayout, classact or any 3rd party library.

MUI is not a "program", it's a set of libraries and classes that allow Amiga coders to produce decent GUIs, something very difficult with crappy gadtools or other primitive graphic toolkits.

Have you ever tried out MUI examples? You have all kind of different classes, you have drag'n'drop everywhere and it's a pleasure from a programmer user point. You can set per-application preferences depending on the preferences you want

IIRC MUI3.8 is even included with AmigaOS3.9 as contribution.

BTW, MUI is not slow, try to build similar complex interfaces with Reaction and you will notice it. People who claim MUI is slow usually fill every gui element with textures and later complain about slowness.