How much pirated Amiga software did you have?

[amiga4ever]

Well some laws will not change no matter how silly.  Like the ban on certain ccontrolled substances and the ones they keep adding in the uk like its going to solve issues, when in fact its just makes things a millions times worse.

Precisely.

[runequester]

Oh really, I could have gone to university and learnt to use software which, at the time, was only taught on MSc engineering degrees requiring not only a previous undergraduate degree but also a solid Mathematical background? Don't worry, I went to my university and local college open days on many occasions, looking and hoping (dreaming?) for "a way in". But that route would have been pretty difficult, considering the fact that I left home and school at the age of 16 and had to work full-time on a minimum wage, just to afford my rent and food. I spent every hour of my free time (after work) practising my trade, on a pirated copy of 3D Studio Max - THAT was my university and pretty much my only option for learning what I needed to learn to enable me to develop a portfolio which I was able to show to employers as a substitute for my lack of formal education. Again, maybe the middle class folk could afford to do things the "proper" way - but for many of us in life "the proper way" is not realistic and why should we just give-up without a fight (even if it does mean breaking a few copyright rules).

Btw, I remember a comment made in an interview with some guy from the marketing department of Alias Wavefront (developers of Maya 3D, which at the time cost around 14k) published in an old copy of 3D World magazine. He was basically asked his opinion on piracy and how it affected sales of Maya. He pretty much openly admitted that Alias purposely made it EASY for Maya to be cracked and hinted that it should even be a policy of Alias to secretly release unlocked versions for those who could not afford it. His basic reasoning was that companies largely do not pirate the software they use and employees and their familiarity with certain software is what dictates which software companies purchase. More pirate users = larger userbase = more company licences. (with respect to productivity s/w, at least)

I don't see your comments as an attack, I just see you as quite narrow minded and myopic in your steadfast adherence to "laws" which, in many cases, make no sense or reason to those of us living in the real world.

here's just a few of the world's most ridiculous laws which I expect you to abide by without question or independent reasoning:

- Topless saleswomen are legal in Liverpool, England, but only in tropical fish stores. (Of course!)

- The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is capitation. (Wonder how they enforce that one?)

- In Hong Kong, a betrayed wife is legally allowed to kill her adulterous husband, but may only do so with her bare hands. (The husband’s lover, on the other hand, may be killed in any manner desired. COOL)

- In Cali, Colombia, a woman may only have sex with her husband, and the first time this happens her mother must be in the room to witness the act. (I shudder at the thought. How many of us would be virgins today?)

- not long, here in the UK, it was "illegal" to be homosexual and you could be hung for the crime.

Not to get into the whole piracy thing, but as a bonus stupid law, if you live in the US, breaking or circumventing copy protection is a felony.

I'd go easy on that trained version of Turrican 2

[Nostalgic_Amigan]

"I don't see your comments as an attack, I just see you as quite narrow minded and myopic in your steadfast adherence to "laws" which, in many cases, make no sense or reason to those of us living in the real world."
 
As Ive said more than once I do pirate and I don't agree with the law, well more with the way things are handled than the letter of the law, and quoting the stupidity of some old laws is meaningless to me it doesnt make your case.
 
Do you think yours is the only idustry with a barrier to entry?
Have you taken a look at the new conservative cabinet? Im not asking you to like the way things are, I dont. I just dont understand the need to justify what you did? You cant because it always comes back to that bottem line doesnt it?
 
I aggree with your point and think its great what you have achieved. Also storys like yours need to be heard because it shows people just how much change is needed.
 
You still made a decision to break the law people may think you are morally right (I do) but it was still against the law and just as many people will call you a crimanal and say you made a morally wrong disision.

[Karlos]

... many people will call you a crimanal

Prrrrpft! An entirely different sort of "bum rap", eh?

:lol:

[pkivolowitz]

I can offer two real-world factual data points made without judgment:

1. Concerning the argument about people not being able to afford software as a reason for piracy:

In Profound Effects piracy from Russia and China was so rampant that I publicized an offer of "If you are purchasing from any email address from .cn or .ru you can have the product for $1."

Not a single sale was made.

2. Concerning the argument about piracy not having a real effect on companies.

Profound Effects is no longer in business.

[recidivist]

So "takemehomegranma,and others",did  you PAY to register MorphOS? Or just  use a cracked version? And why  would stealing Piru's work  be different from stealing Jim Sachs' work?

 DO any of you perform a service job that doesn't  produce physical objects? Should not your service (time, and knowledge ) be compensated?

 And the law professor justifying IP theft is kind of scary.

 The way the free market is SUPPOSED to work is people either buy or not based on if they can afford the product or service and if the buyer perceives it has value.People who produce crap or price products too high go out of business.

 As for people  taking Mercedes if they could,I think Mercedes production would quickly end-hmmm,maybe a parallel here?
  Why didn't everyone who wanted an Amigo 3000 back in the days  of $3299 units just take one?After all it was only  a few pounds of cheap metal and plastic.

 Philosophers and prophets and governments  and I recognize many people will take anything they can get away with,and ONE of the signs of civilized people is they don't steal .I'd like to think more than 1% have  an innate sense of morality called "conscience" .I have  also found in my half-century that many people  will do what is consistently expected of them ,whether that be good or bad.

[recidivist]

NOt that I've heard of the law being used,but back in the George Bush I days,our Congress passed a law making it a very big deal to have more than 10 pirated  pieces of software.Think the  stated punishment was something  like 10 years imprisonment and $250,000 fine!.Reall way over the top.However,s a disgruntled employee can tell the SPA about  his boss'(company) use of unlicensed  software and the company can find itself looking at  million $ penalties to become legal.I know of a couple local computer resellers no longer in business because they placed pirated OS and office suites on their goods.(just for the record I had absolutely nothing to do with those legal actions,had even bought one of my computers there ,and never thought it might be running unlicensed OS).
 I will agree most software seems priced way too high.

[motrucker]

I had more software than I knew what to do with, all legal. I was a Newsletter Editor for our local Commodore user group. I ended up writing reviews about the software I used (C-64, C-128, and Amiga), and that snowballed into loads of publishers sending copies of their programs.
I never wrote a review white washing a product. I tore some a new butt for bad stuff - but they kept sending the stuff until the group went belly up.
These were some good times back then. There was a lot going on in the greater Washington D.C., Baltimore area than.
Our Group was very anti Piracy - so I had follow that line.

I should add that Amiga software was usually very fairly priced, compared to other platforms. Of course games were pretty much the same price.

[Ral-Clan]

Nobody lost ANYTHING through my piracy because, as has been pointed out by many in this thread, "our types" would not have been able to afford most of the software we pirated. But society HAS gain a skilled software user and a guy who can now afford to PAY for all the games and software that he and his family (children included) uses.

see, it's magic and just afterall.

Okay, since that's what you believe, how would you feel if you were working on nice graphics project for client, and a poor young struggling graphics artist somehow got ahold of your graphics files and put them in his portfolio for prospective clients, claiming they were his own work?

Same situation, but with the positions reversed.  Now that you are successful, should someone in a less fortunate position be able to freely benefit from your hard work?

How would you feel?

[motrucker]

NOt that I've heard of the law being used,but back in the George Bush I days,our Congress passed a law making it a very big deal to have more than 10 pirated  pieces of software.Think the  stated punishment was something  like 10 years imprisonment and $250,000 fine!.Reall way over the top.....

What law is that? I live in the States, and I have never heard of this one.
For the record, I am against "piracy", just because is theft - pure and simple. BUT, lord these arguments get anal....

[stefcep2]

Excuse me, but WTF are you saying here? Go to a house and take stuff?!? Oh, man...

1. When you download something, you aren't removing any objects. You don't even remove the digitalized information. It's all still there, you aren't taking away anything. No-one will wake up and say "hey, where is the TV?"

This old BS again.  Behind the digital data there are many man hours of learning, many man  hours of work by a real human being who is not getting paid for the product he has created and you are profiting from, either in terms of making money or personally enjoying.  The physical medium costs next to nothing, just like it costs hundreds or billions of dollars in man hours to develop a single new model of car, but maybe a few thousand dollars in materials.

2. What may be lost is a sales opportunity, but only if you download it for free instead of buying it. OTOH, if you would never have bought it anyway, not even the sales opportunity is lost.

More BS.  None of this entitles you to profit either monetarily or in terms of personal enjoyment from the time and effort another person has put in in the hope they earn a living.

There are many reasons to *why we don't buy* stuff, like for example that we don't really want it, or we simply can't afford it.

And the BS continues.  

If you don't want it, why do you have it?

If you can't afford it then you can't have it.  See my whitegoods analogy: you don't break into the store and steal your washing machine just because you couldn't afford it.

Have you looked at what Adobe is asking for their Master Collection CS5? I'll tell you: US$2,599!

There is *no way* I could possibly pay that kind of money for some software even if I wanted to. I know that, they know that, I'm simply not in their target market (which probably is various media producing corporations).

Thats right you're not.  They'll sell to you for a tenth of the price the versions that are targeted at your market.  Still can't afford it?  Get a job.

Still I'm using Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Fireworks, Flash, Acrobat, etc (all from the Master Collection CS5) on an almost daily basis. And you know what? Adobe has lost exactly $0 on me. They haven't lost anything at all, since there is no chance in this world that I would have bought their product anyway. There never were any sales opportunity for them to lose!

What are you doing with these professional tools?  Why do you need them?  Whether you use them in a professional capacity and made money from using these tools, or they provide you personal enjoyment, you have profited from the hard work of others that you haven't paid them for.  If you are using these tools in a professional capacity, then you shouldn't charge as well.

If I OTOH would go to Adobes office, smash a window, and grab a monitor from a nearby desk, then they would obviously have lost something.

Do you see the difference?

No, not in the slightest.

[stefcep2]

Just not true. As I've said in a previous post, as a kid all of my software was pirated. This was because I came from a pretty poor background (to say the least), had no income and in the 90s couldn't afford £35+ per title. I agree, games are a luxury and my not being able to afford them is no moral argument - i should have just "done without".

But the point is, I certainly could not have afforded to buy those games anyway, and more importantly I would NEEEEEEEVER have been able to afford my copy of Real3D (which, iirc cost around £300) or 3D Studio Max which cost thousands. I honed my graphic skills on pirated applications as a kid and that enabled me become employed as an adult in an industry I love. Now that's a more moral based argument. Games you can do without, but productivity applications open doors to careers, careers that would be exclusive to only those children that came from families who could afford to buy them certain software titles. :/

Nowadays, EVERY item of software I own is legal. Not because I "can't" crack these software titles (I most certainly easily can) but because I can afford them thanks to my sort after skills (honed, largely, thanks to pirated softwrae)

Nobody lost ANYTHING through my piracy because, as has been pointed out by many in this thread, "our types" would not have been able to afford most of the software we pirated. But society HAS gain a skilled software user and a guy who can now afford to PAY for all the games and software that he and his family (children included) uses.

see, it's magic and just afterall.

So I take it you donate your time and creations for free to the needy poor kids to give them a leg up in to your industry?

[stefcep2]

BTW, Limewire was found guilty yesterday:

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/limewire-induces-copyright-theft-20100513-uzc1.html

[SamuraiCrow]

When I switched from the C64 to my first Amiga I made the choice to only go for purchased software. It meant I didn't have all the latest games, but it did mean that I really had time to play the ones I had. Back on the C64 when I had loads and loads of tapes with pirated games I really only loaded them up, played for a minute and said "Next!".

For productivity software I mostly relied on Amiga Format and CU Amiga cover disks.

I only snagged one or two copies on the Amiga after making a similar decision.  I purchased PageStream after having used it a while and my little sisters didn't get much enjoyment out of Mixed-Up Mother Goose anyway.

In those days I lived off of what was uploaded to the Aminet and played unregistered shareware quite a bit.  I didn't miss the Warez as much as I missed watching the cracktros at the beginning of the C64 pirate software I used to use.  My internet provider limited my access to a half-hour a day on the freebie rate so time-outs on the Voyager web browser and Miami didn't bother me much even after my hard drive crashed with the AmiTCP shareware version that took so long to set up went with it.

Eventually all of the software I had wanted to register went freeware anyway:  Deluxe Galaga AGA was briefly before the author reinstated a nominal fee due to the emulator users' freeloading.  AmosPro is still freeware.

The only software that I didn't get because I couldn't afford it was the GameSmith developer system that came bundled with special versions of the DevPak assembler and the DICE C compiler.  It took me a while to learn C and Assembly so I'm not sure if it would have helped me anyway.  I am not much of a pixel-artist either.

[recidivist]

December 1, 1990 Computer Software Rental Admendments Act (President Bush)

October 1998 Digital Millenium Copyright Act President Clinton)

I couldn't find exactly what I remembered but the current  copyright lengths and punishments are extreme ,beyond draconian.Depending on which statute is invoked it seems you could be sentenced to  a maximum of either 5 or 10 years and fines up to $100,00 or $250,000.

 I think it is a crime to steal new software  or work ,but copyrights of 70 to 120 years are just ridiculous!
 Ultimately,laws are part of the social contract and I expect the laws will change again.

[Einstein]

Interviewer: Hi Ms Bit. How would you describe yourself ?
Bit: I'm a cheap prost{bleep}!
Interviewer: Don't you think about how this affects your parents ?
Bit: I love them, but this is *my* life!

:sealed: