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Offline Buzzfuzz

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #104 from previous page: May 13, 2010, 11:51:29 AM »
With music artists you should look at the percentage they actually get, it's almost :angryfire: what they get, it's like 1-10%, the rest is all going to organisers, retailers, copyrighters and a little bit to the record company e.t.c.
 
I do not say that copying isn't stealing, because it is, but if they were really honest and didn't make price agreements then some software would be a lot less cheaper.
They are all going for the big $$$$ and the easy money, the more profit they make of it, the better, again I think the actual percentage that goes to the developer is less than 10%, unless it's a big company / they are completely in control themselves.
 
It's the same as products in a store, go for big margins and sell less / nothing or make it as low as possible and sell a lot, it's up to them.
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Offline Nostalgic_Amigan

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #105 on: May 13, 2010, 12:23:04 PM »
You see the pirating "debate" everywhere these days! Im getting a little sick of it! One thing for sure it does spark strong opinions. I figured I'd put my two cents (or pennys) in.
 
When I had my Amiga the first time round in the early ninetys I had alot of games! Well I had two to three hundred which compared to some in this thread isnt many. Like alot of people here I was young and didnt even think about it! If I had known it was wrong I still would have done it.
 
Ive been building PC's, for at least 11 years and I have never paid for a full copy of Windows, I have "owned" almost evey version that has been released. I know this is wrong I still did and do it to this day. I was however tempted to pay for Windows 7, its the best of a bad bunch but as it turns out I didnt and Im currently running Windows 7 Ultimate.
 
Lastly I have a harddrive full of Music, and Video. In fact I havent payed for music for years.
 
I make no excuses, I know what im doing is wrong even if other people can justify it in very creative and convincing ways. I will still continue to pirate(but not on the amiga market which needs support.)
 
That being said if a policeman smashed down my door and grabbed my computer I would accept what ever punichment they gave me.
 

Offline mingle

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #106 on: May 13, 2010, 12:24:24 PM »
When I think back, I copied hundred of disks over the years, but played/used most of them no more than once - then used the disks for the next 'round' of copies. A lot of the stuff was nowhere near as good as some of teh reviews made out...

If I'd paid good money for them I'd not only be p*ssed off, but skint as well!

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Offline KThunder

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #107 on: May 13, 2010, 01:10:24 PM »
Quote from: EvilGuy;558111
You're right. BUT, if an individual downloads your application and uses it because they cannot afford to buy it then its probably a fair bet that suing them isn't going to get you anywhere either. It just runs up costs for lawyers and chokes the legal system.

The way to attack the problem is to go after those who distribute copies of software on a commercial scale; stop the supply of these products. Then make home use/educational/... versions of your applications available at a reasonable price. For games, go to an electronic distribution mechanism and lower your prices significantly - charging 10% less for downloadable versions when a significant chunk of the cost of software is in the box, delivery and artwork is offensive.


This is a recurring argument, we don't have much money so we wouldn't have ought it anyway. Or they are charging too much, or sueing us wouldn't help since you wouldn't get much...or whatever...

And I see that, I grew up in a middle class family, and I have been a student. My only question is this: Is it ok then for poor people to do whatever they want? A pirated copy of Windows, MS office, thousands of songs, dozens of movies, dozens of games, etc... Is that ok? Would the courts see that as ok? If you put a significant amount of time and money into producing a product only for it to be copied and distrubuted without you so you can't make any money keeping you in a stupid low paying job. Is that ok?

All so that a group of people, who If they really put their mind to it could pay, can say arrrrrrgh!!!! I'm a pirate.

It's not about the money, you could pay if you wanted, you don't really make any distinction between a large company, and a starving artist, or MS and a lone wolf programmer. You want the content and you don't care about who produced it. You think it is cool to be a pirate.
pay hundreds for hardware but think its a crime to pay 50 for a game....The hardware is worthless without the software, so which is really more important?
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Offline jj

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #108 on: May 13, 2010, 01:23:33 PM »
I buy loads of cds and dvds.  I love to own original cds.  I will admit to downloading some music.  But if I really like an album an honestly buy it
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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #109 on: May 13, 2010, 01:43:52 PM »
I have 4 shelves of DVDs I happily bought and maybe half a shelf of copied or pirate DVDs. I go over to my uncle or cousins house and both have about 5 DVDs each. Is some movie industry guy going to start foaming at the mouth because in his opinion he's lost sales because of me.

A good pirate is probably spending their money on their education or donating to charity.
A bad pirate has a collection of sports cars and a holiday home, but still pirates.
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Offline wiser3

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #110 on: May 13, 2010, 01:43:58 PM »
I had a large stack of copied games, probably a few hundred, from local BBS's and Amiga parties. Of those games i bought the ones i liked, Civilization, Rocket Ranger, Bubble Bobble, etc... Bought about 25, which was more then i could afford. I recall slipping a few bucks from my mom/dad's wallets on a few occasions to put towards buying games.

For several games; Bubble Bobble, Prince of Persia, Hybris, etc, although i bought an original i played the pirated version because there trainers made it so much more fun.
 

Offline Nostalgic_Amigan

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #111 on: May 13, 2010, 01:48:26 PM »
Quote from: KThunder;558226
This is a recurring argument, we don't have much money so we wouldn't have ought it anyway. Or they are charging too much, or sueing us wouldn't help since you wouldn't get much...or whatever...
 
And I see that, I grew up in a middle class family, and I have been a student. My only question is this: Is it ok then for poor people to do whatever they want? A pirated copy of Windows, MS office, thousands of songs, dozens of movies, dozens of games, etc... Is that ok? Would the courts see that as ok? If you put a significant amount of time and money into producing a product only for it to be copied and distrubuted without you so you can't make any money keeping you in a stupid low paying job. Is that ok?
 
All so that a group of people, who If they really put their mind to it could pay, can say arrrrrrgh!!!! I'm a pirate.
 
It's not about the money, you could pay if you wanted, you don't really make any distinction between a large company, and a starving artist, or MS and a lone wolf programmer. You want the content and you don't care about who produced it. You think it is cool to be a pirate.
pay hundreds for hardware but think its a crime to pay 50 for a game....The hardware is worthless without the software, so which is really more important?

First of all I could make the again "often used" arguement that being of a middle class background what right have you got to comment about so called "poor people".
 
Secondly, I really don't think a mature person thinks its cool to be software pirate or even a real life one. A Pirates of the Carribean fictional romantic stlyle one maybe, but not a real one. :)
 
They will never go after people who pirate software because A) They would be fighting a losing battle, and B) It would cost the world. So the go after the facilitators like Pirate Bay, and all the others all the way back to Napster.
 
The fact is people do it because they can, plain and simple. People will continue to do it as long as they are able. Some try to justify it, some don't. Some hide behind slogans like "information is free" others don't. At the end of the day its a morale decision.
 
The internet is the wild west and as they crack down on the internet and begin to police it more and more, which they will, there will alway be clever people fighting the good (or bad) fight. I dont know about you guys but that makes me warm inside.
 
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Offline amiga4ever

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #112 on: May 13, 2010, 01:59:42 PM »
Quote from: Nostalgic_Amigan;558237
The fact is people do it because they can, plain and simple. People will continue to do it as long as they are able. Some try to justify it, some don't. Some hide behind slogans like "information is free" others don't. At the end of the day its a morale decision.

Just not true. As I've said in a previous post, as a kid all of my software was pirated. This was because I came from a pretty poor background (to say the least), had no income and in the 90s couldn't afford £35+ per title. I agree, games are a luxury and my not being able to afford them is no moral argument - i should have just "done without".

But the point is, I certainly could not have afforded to buy those games anyway, and more importantly I would NEEEEEEEVER have been able to afford my copy of Real3D (which, iirc cost around £300) or 3D Studio Max which cost thousands. I honed my graphic skills on pirated applications as a kid and that enabled me become employed as an adult in an industry I love. Now that's a more moral based argument. Games you can do without, but productivity applications open doors to careers, careers that would be exclusive to only those children that came from families who could afford to buy them certain software titles. :/

Nowadays, EVERY item of software I own is legal. Not because I "can't" crack these software titles (I most certainly easily can) but because I can afford them thanks to my sort after skills (honed, largely, thanks to pirated softwrae)

Nobody lost ANYTHING through my piracy because, as has been pointed out by many in this thread, "our types" would not have been able to afford most of the software we pirated. But society HAS gain a skilled software user and a guy who can now afford to PAY for all the games and software that he and his family (children included) uses.

see, it's magic and just afterall.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 02:08:54 PM by amiga4ever »
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #113 on: May 13, 2010, 02:16:02 PM »
Quote from: mingle;558221
When I think back, I copied hundred of disks over the years, but played/used most of them no more than once - then used the disks for the next 'round' of copies. A lot of the stuff was nowhere near as good as some of teh reviews made out...

If I'd paid good money for them I'd not only be p*ssed off, but skint as well!

Mike.


Mingle!  New Bubby ?

Congratulations..!

(Sorry for the detour)

Looks like the new Amiga logo should have the Jolly Roger in there somewhere.

Gertsy
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 02:20:36 PM by gertsy »
 

Offline persia

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #114 on: May 13, 2010, 03:12:55 PM »
Back in the good old days getting software used to be a great social occasion, you'd have these huge users group meetings where you just copied disks and while all that was going on they're be this party going on and you really got to meet your fellow users.  Nowadays it's just torrent this, torrent that and you never get to meet others.  Maybe it's time for a facebook group...
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Offline coldfish

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #115 on: May 13, 2010, 03:17:02 PM »
Quote from: amiga4ever;558240
Just not true. As I've said in a previous post, as a kid all of my software was pirated. This was because I came from a pretty poor background (to say the least), had no income and in the 90s couldn't afford £35+ per title. I agree, games are a luxury and my not being able to afford them is no moral argument - i should have just "done without".

But the point is, I certainly could not have afforded to buy those games anyway, and more importantly I would NEEEEEEEVER have been able to afford my copy of Real3D (which, iirc cost around £300) or 3D Studio Max which cost thousands. I honed my graphic skills on pirated applications as a kid and that enabled me become employed as an adult in an industry I love. Now that's a more moral based argument. Games you can do without, but productivity applications open doors to careers, careers that would be exclusive to only those children that came from families who could afford to buy them certain software titles. :/

Nowadays, EVERY item of software I own is legal. Not because I "can't" crack these software titles (I most certainly easily can) but because I can afford them thanks to my sort after skills (honed, largely, thanks to pirated softwrae)

Nobody lost ANYTHING through my piracy because, as has been pointed out by many in this thread, "our types" would not have been able to afford most of the software we pirated. But society HAS gain a skilled software user and a guy who can now afford to PAY for all the games and software that he and his family (children included) uses.

see, it's magic and just afterall.

I think this is a very nice point that amiga4ever has made.

I also learnt my skills on machines that had mostly copied software, today I'm a designer who spends several thousands on software each year, and much more on hardware. Without that early start I might be working the land like my father and grandfather.

Those who would say "if you cant afford it you cant use it" are suffering from the typical small minded elitism that aims to maintain a (perceived) superior position over others. Fortunately these "superior" people seem to be a minority in this thread.

I think people just have to accept that one of digital media's great flaws and benefits is its infinite duplicatablity.  Personally I'd like to see software become available in a free library, which is sort of what the internet is software developers like it or not.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 03:22:36 PM by coldfish »
 

Offline Nostalgic_Amigan

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #116 on: May 13, 2010, 03:50:51 PM »
Quote from: amiga4ever;558240
Just not true. As I've said in a previous post, as a kid all of my software was pirated. This was because I came from a pretty poor background (to say the least), had no income and in the 90s couldn't afford £35+ per title. I agree, games are a luxury and my not being able to afford them is no moral argument - i should have just "done without".
 
But the point is, I certainly could not have afforded to buy those games anyway, and more importantly I would NEEEEEEEVER have been able to afford my copy of Real3D (which, iirc cost around £300) or 3D Studio Max which cost thousands. I honed my graphic skills on pirated applications as a kid and that enabled me become employed as an adult in an industry I love. Now that's a more moral based argument. Games you can do without, but productivity applications open doors to careers, careers that would be exclusive to only those children that came from families who could afford to buy them certain software titles. :/
 
Nowadays, EVERY item of software I own is legal. Not because I "can't" crack these software titles (I most certainly easily can) but because I can afford them thanks to my sort after skills (honed, largely, thanks to pirated softwrae)
 
Nobody lost ANYTHING through my piracy because, as has been pointed out by many in this thread, "our types" would not have been able to afford most of the software we pirated. But society HAS gain a skilled software user and a guy who can now afford to PAY for all the games and software that he and his family (children included) uses.
 
see, it's magic and just afterall.

Like I mentioned before people can justify it in many convincing ways. It doesnt change the key facts does it? A software developer makes a piece of software a price is decided and that software is sold. It is illegal (for want of a better word) to pirate that software! That is the way it works. I agree with what you say but that doesnt change that fact does it? Thats why I don't justify it! I do what I do and that is that! I to could use the same arguements as you but I dont.
 
When I said "The fact is people do it because they can, plain and simple." I ment in general, obviously every individual has their own story, point of view.
 
As for allowing you a future career thats awsome but software developers dont owe the youth of today anything, and surely you could have gained the same skills in say college/university. Please dont see that as a attack im just saying its never going to be right to pirate because there are laws in place against it and trying to justify it is pointless becasue it will never be "ok".
 
If you dont agree with a law you campain to change it, you dont just break it surely?
 

Offline jj

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #117 on: May 13, 2010, 04:09:36 PM »
Well some laws will not change no matter how silly.  Like the ban on certain ccontrolled substances and the ones they keep adding in the uk like its going to solve issues, when in fact its just makes things a millions times worse.
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Offline amiga4ever

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #118 on: May 13, 2010, 04:42:37 PM »
Quote from: Nostalgic_Amigan;558273
Like I mentioned before people can justify it in many convincing ways. It doesnt change the key facts does it? A software developer makes a piece of software a price is decided and that software is sold. It is illegal (for want of a better word) to pirate that software! That is the way it works. I agree with what you say but that doesnt change that fact does it? Thats why I don't justify it! I do what I do and that is that! I to could use the same arguements as you but I dont.
 
When I said "The fact is people do it because they can, plain and simple." I ment in general, obviously every individual has their own story, point of view.
 
As for allowing you a future career thats awsome but software developers dont owe the youth of today anything, and surely you could have gained the same skills in say college/university. Please dont see that as a attack im just saying its never going to be right to pirate because there are laws in place against it and trying to justify it is pointless becasue it will never be "ok".
 
If you dont agree with a law you campain to change it, you dont just break it surely?

Oh really, I could have gone to university and learnt to use software which, at the time, was only taught on MSc engineering degrees requiring not only a previous undergraduate degree but also a solid Mathematical background? Don't worry, I went to my university and local college open days on many occasions, looking and hoping (dreaming?) for "a way in". But that route would have been pretty difficult, considering the fact that I left home and school at the age of 16 and had to work full-time on a minimum wage, just to afford my rent and food. I spent every hour of my free time (after work) practising my trade, on a pirated copy of 3D Studio Max - THAT was my university and pretty much my only option for learning what I needed to learn to enable me to develop a portfolio which I was able to show to employers as a substitute for my lack of formal education. Again, maybe the middle class folk could afford to do things the "proper" way - but for many of us in life "the proper way" is not realistic and why should we just give-up without a fight (even if it does mean breaking a few copyright rules).

Btw, I remember a comment made in an interview with some guy from the marketing department of Alias Wavefront (developers of Maya 3D, which at the time cost around 14k) published in an old copy of 3D World magazine. He was basically asked his opinion on piracy and how it affected sales of Maya. He pretty much openly admitted that Alias purposely made it EASY for Maya to be cracked and hinted that it should even be a policy of Alias to secretly release unlocked versions for those who could not afford it. His basic reasoning was that companies largely do not pirate the software they use and employees and their familiarity with certain software is what dictates which software companies purchase. More pirate users = larger userbase = more company licences. (with respect to productivity s/w, at least)

I don't see your comments as an attack, I just see you as quite narrow minded and myopic in your steadfast adherence to "laws" which, in many cases, make no sense or reason to those of us living in the real world.

here's just a few of the world's most ridiculous laws which I expect you to abide by without question or independent reasoning:

- Topless saleswomen are legal in Liverpool, England, but only in tropical fish stores. (Of course!)

- The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is capitation. (Wonder how they enforce that one?)

- In Hong Kong, a betrayed wife is legally allowed to kill her adulterous husband, but may only do so with her bare hands. (The husband’s lover, on the other hand, may be killed in any manner desired. COOL)

- In Cali, Colombia, a woman may only have sex with her husband, and the first time this happens her mother must be in the room to witness the act. (I shudder at the thought. How many of us would be virgins today?)

- not long, here in the UK, it was "illegal" to be homosexual and you could be hung for the crime.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 04:48:43 PM by amiga4ever »
 

Offline amiga4ever

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Re: How much pirated Amiga software did you have?
« Reply #119 on: May 13, 2010, 04:44:20 PM »
Quote from: JJ;558275
Well some laws will not change no matter how silly.  Like the ban on certain ccontrolled substances and the ones they keep adding in the uk like its going to solve issues, when in fact its just makes things a millions times worse.


Precisely.