How much pirated Amiga software did you have?

[jj]

Dont get me wrong I bought a lot of original games and software also.  Especially from 2000 on.
 
And now as consoles are my main gaming device all my software original.
 
Dito for my massive software collection for PC

[Einstein]

I don't buy games at a greater rate when I don't pirate versus when I do, though.  The number of games I buy doesn't decrease when I download more of them.  

It's not a lost sale unless you have all of the following:
1) The ability to buy it.
2) The desire to buy it.
3) Then you didn't buy it after getting a pirate copy.  

That's the only way it's a lost sale.  Most of the "piracy == lost sales == platform killer" argument folks neglect the fact that nobody would have bought that crap game had it not been free.  9/10ths of the stuff I had probably wasn't worth the cost of the blank floppy it was on.  The fact was, I was just to lazy to sort, reformat and relabel that floppy, so I just bought more.   :lol:

Precisely.
Later on (until christmas 94 when I sold my A1200) I was also too lazy to juggle with copying, but then I was too "poor" to buy either: needed the money for occasional new cloth, skating accessories (earlier on), gym/martial arts fees etc..

[recidivist]

I  probably had 15+,all acquired as parts of "package deals" of Amiga computer and all accessories,programs,etc .I did not download or swap  copies at club meetings or elsewhere;actually turned down one deal for an Amiga setup because ALL the 1000+?  programs were copies (with  photocopied manuals) and it just ticked me that the seller wanted money for stolen goods.I 've warned flea marketers about the  hazarrds of selling bogus Microsoft CDs as well-one fellow no longer displays them.Too bad that my co-worker actually thinks I am stupid for not having  stolen full copies of all the latest Microsoft and Adobe software on MY laptop as he does on his.
 Stealing is just SO COOL,until you steal from the thief.

[jkirk]

i always bought my software on my Amiga. i had no sources for pirated games instead i played bbs games or downloaded pd games. this was until i bought my second a500. i never looked at what software came with it and didn't care till i got home. 99% of it was pirated. i tried a few but really didn't care for them. so i boxed them up in a plastic storage box(yes that many).

heck i even bought fury of the furries on floppy AND cd because i liked it so much. the floppy was for the a500 and the cd for the cd32.

[runequester]

so if copying (piracy is when you steal shit on the high seas) killed the amiga, why didn't it kill the PC ?

I am still not buying it.

[recidivist]

Now that I've taken time to read all the comments,it sad really;a majority of Amiga users were/are comfortable with stealing someone's work.
How many  here regularly shoplift food and clothing? Game consoles?Get government welfare checks because they'd rather not work, so they steal from everyone ?
 I see abandoned property as different, just another way of passing into public domain.But stealing from existing entities hurts them.

 Commodores computers were treated as toys because the users didn't want to pay for serious software.
 
 I wonder..do  people here think buying a car entitles one to steal gas and tires?Car won't run without them;computer won't run without programs.

[Pentad]

Now that I've taken time to read all the comments,it sad really;a majority of Amiga users were/are comfortable with stealing someone's work.
How many  here regularly shoplift food and clothing? Game consoles?Get government welfare checks because they'd rather not work, so they steal from everyone ?
 I see abandoned property as different, just another way of passing into public domain.But stealing from existing entities hurts them.

 Commodores computers were treated as toys because the users didn't want to pay for serious software.
 
 I wonder..do  people here think buying a car entitles one to steal gas and tires?Car won't run without them;computer won't run without programs.

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin...   As a University Professor in Computer Science, I teach Intellectual Property and Patent Law in my classes and you're all over the place here.

You are combining tangible and intangible property in your argument (I use that term lightly).  They are entirely different in both their nature and how the law views them.  

Patent Violations and Copyright infringement are not theft as defined by the law.  

Lastly, "I see abandoned property as different" is an odd statement when you make such a big deal out of everything else.

If I have more time I can give you more information on the laws you are confusing...

[KThunder]

@pentad
You have the time right here and now, tell us what the legal position is. Was it ok to copy software and share it?

[Buzzfuzz]

I wonder..do people here think buying a car entitles one to steal gas and tires?Car won't run without them;computer won't run without programs.

So how does comparing a car to a computer fit in with copying software ?
If you can buy the car you already thought of if you can afford the gas and insurance and repairs/upgrades.
Besides the value of a new proper car can't be compared to a computer and software although some companies charge car prices for software.
And I'm talking about cars that cost around 20000-30000 euro's.
 
And on a side note, most cars are from the bank or lease, cause most people can't pay those amounts at once.
 
I can buy a computer and I can think of what software I want to use and I can find it online what the prices are.
Back in those days I had to call, and the answer most of the time was 'We don't know, you have to wait until we have it, if we get it at all'.
By the time most original software came available, I didn't run my Amiga anymore, I already had a PC which I had bought every piece of software.
 
Today I have a monster Core I7 975 here and every piece of software is paid for, but these days even some prices are just INSANE high!
I can understand the value for example of Adobe Photoshop, but a retail version costs about 1000 euro's, that's almost 9 times as much as my Windows 7 OEM version and almost 15 times as much as my retail version for Symantec Internet Security.
I'm going to buy Adobe Photoshop because I like it, and even though it costs that much, I can afford it now.
 
But there are probably millions of people who have downloaded it from a torrent, and if you see what people can get trough the net.
Even the most current TV series or newest album of whoever.
 
So what about that, TV series went on to tapes with VCR's back in the days and that is about the same as copying software.
But people nowadays TIVO it or record it to HDD recorders, so what's changed ?
Everyone does that too, and that is just as copyrighted as a piece of software, but no one dares to implement a strong copyright protection, because if that where the case, no one would buy a TIVO anymore or HDD recorder.
If you where charged 50 dollars every time you where to record your favorite episode, you would probably say too, hey I'll go to a shop and buy the DVD/Bluray pack or download it.
 
The market would get such a blow and digital progress would stop or get to a crawl.
Why do you think it goes so hard now adays with DVD/Bluray burners in computers ?
Because of copying or all the downloaded things, it's just that simple.
If it was only for data backup like photos and documents, the prices would have been skyhigh.
 
The solution ?
Simple, make it affordable, Microsoft finally saw it our way, and the 3pc 1 license Office 2007 home and student has an affordable price at around 99-120 euro's.
Windows 7 OEM Professional was included with the pc and cost around 136 euro's, that's a lot less than an retail version back in the days of XP.
Even an OEM version of XP was twice as high as Windows 7 OEM is now.
So if Microsoft can do it, why can't others, or my example, Adobe ?

[Pentad]

@pentad
You have the time right here and now, tell us what the legal position is. Was it ok to copy software and share it?

By all means, no.   You can't copy software and share it.  However, its not stealing either (in a legal sense of the term.)   Dealing with intangible property is a mess.

Trivia:

Did you know that something could not be copyrighted if it wasn't readable by an average person (in the US)?   Yep, even through the 1970s, binary code could not be copyrighted because of that.   Player Piano music sheets were widely 'pirated'  because they could not be copyrighted because they could not be read by an average person.

Here is something to think about:

I write a kooky-tree-hugging book called "The Little Unicorn that Shat Rainbows".  Now I mean write in the basic sense.  I wrote it for my kids.  I don't publish it, I don't sell it, I don't market it in any way.   I just read it to my kids.   Well, I wrote it so I own the copyright to it.

Now, you 'hear' my story when I tell it to my kids at bedtime.  You then repeat it to your kids.  Well, that is copyright infringement.  Its not theft or stealing, its infringement.  I am the copyright holder and I want to hold it for just my kids at bedtime.  You are infringing on my rights.

Now, Fair Use becomes involved here but this shows that copyright infringement isn't truly theft.  I'm not missing anything, you are just telling my story to your kids.

Saying that copying software is the same and taking it home off the shelf at Wal-mart just isn't accurate.

Remember the biggest LIE in the RIAA and MPAA:  Copies vs Purchases.   If 500 million songs were copied last year (I'm just making up the number) then the RIAA lost 500 million sales.   Thats not a valid argument because you are assuming that people would pay for all the songs they copied.  Maybe they didn't like all the songs they downloaded?  Maybe some were duplicates?  Maybe they are poor and could never afford to buy all the music they copied.  Again, I'm not saying its right -what they are doing- but its misleading to say it cost the RIAA X amount of dollars because I'm not sure all those songs would have been bought.

-P

[persia]

Exactly, the 15 Year old with the 60K songs isn't likely to buy or even listen to more than a small number of them.  Not every copy would have been a sale.  Back in the day most of the games were cr@p, and the copied disks got tossed into a storage box somewhere until time finally took it's toll on them.

I know people with hundreds of non-purchased apps on their iPhones and they really only use two or three of them.  They just like the idea of them being there.

[koaftder]

When I was a teen, I remember going to the store any buying: madona cd, 2 garbage singles, a garbage album and something else. Cost: over 100 bucks. I plunked down the money and went home and listened to my stuff. Spent a whole two weeks earnings on that and had a few cd's. I felt like a chump after that. Swear to god, I never bought another song after that. I learned my lesson in 1996. Before CD players were affordabe, I used to just record songs off the radio on my dual casette boom box. I do the same thing today though it's satellite radio and instead of a boom box, it's a pc.

[amiga4ever]

Recidavist: how many years have you been on this planet? because your expectations are quite naive for a fully grown adult. I can tell you now, as a realist who's made an amature occupation of studying human behaviour, if it was possible to walk into a car showroom and "steal" a Mercedes Benz car with impunity, most people would. those who say they wouldn't are in one of three categories:

1. liars

2. the 1% of people with a misplaced sense of morals (ie: valuing the profits of huge corporations over their own interest) or

3. rich enough to buy it without a single financial consideration (and those people are few and far between, thanks to our system's unequal distribution of global wealth)

And, btw, the majority of those who do "pirate" software are young, students or the unemployed. in other words, people who couldn't afford to buy - or would greatly struggle to afford - the software in the first place. I think it's more immoral for people to not have access to overpriced (relative to said people's financial positions) software....just because they happen to be poor - personally.

the s/w theft that does occur is for the greater good and equality of mankind, imo. and there are plenty of people that can afford software to still make it very profitable for software companies to continue developing - that has always been the case and always will be - particularly as s/w firms continue to focus a lot more on valued added customer support.

please, grow up.

[skurk]

Now that I've taken time to read all the comments,it sad really;a majority of Amiga users were/are comfortable with stealing someone's work.

If I had to pay for all the software I ever used, I'd be bankrupt today.

How many  here regularly shoplift food and clothing?

Oh, never.  But it's a big difference between copying and stealing: keep in mind that I'm not actually taking money away from someone, I'm just not giving them money.  And if I couldn't copy it, I wouldn't buy it either.  It's just a convenience issue for me.

Following your logic, my local pizza shop should sue me for making my own pizza at home?

[Karlos]

Following your logic, my local pizza shop should sue me for making my own pizza at home?

I don't think that's the right analogy to copying software. The analogy above applies to the example of creating your own software at home, rather than using a copy of software created by somebody else.

[Karlos]

At least these days, free software is sufficiently evolved that you can pretty much do anything you need to without spending a penny on software if for whatever reason you feel aggrieved in doing so. The only real exception to that is gaming, and frankly, I don't really mind paying for that. After all, it's a luxury rather than a necessity.