Interview with Trevor Dickinson

[Karlos]

But it isn't a classic Amiga, it runs classic software through UAE, the same way a Mac or PC does.  Only it is far more costly than either of those....

Only the last part of your observation is correct. The first part is not. Neither OS4 or MOS run classic software in the same way a "Mac or PC" running UAE does. In both OS4 and MOS, system-friendly 68k apps run translated within the host operating system, wherein OS calls are ultimately routed to native code. Furthermore whilst UAE exists for both platforms to run software that does require classic hardware emulation, even that has been integrated rather more seamlessly of late. With software like RunInUAE you can just run such a legacy app from the workbench and have it pretty much transparently open in UAE.

[EDanaII]

I don't quite know where I fit into that. I have a fairly modern PC (2 years old, nearly, but a decent enough spec), I use other OSes, but I still retain several classics, an A1 and I was hoping to get a PPC mac for MOS2 and contemplating this X1000 machine too.

Alas, the old job security took a kick lately and such plans are now on hold for the moment.

Well, I suppose if I were to try and "quantify" where one rates on the Amiga Religion scale, I'd have to say (for the sake of argument) that those who want PPC and think that Hyperion is going to save the world are probably 100% religious. I'd say that those who want PPC over x86 by asserting that PPC is somehow superior while ignoring the price performance ratio of alternatives are 100% religious.

Contrast that with someone like myself, I'd have to say I'm 10, maybe 20%, religious. I have my A1200. Haven't used it seriously in a long time but never had the heart to get rid of it. No modifications to it, use UAE more often than that and even then barely. Have AROS installed on a couple different boxes, etc...

So, I'd have to ask then, where do you think you fall in between those figures? You do sound like you got at least a little bit of pragmatism in ya, so I suspect you're somewhere in the middle.

Not that there's anything wrong with being religious, btw. For me the wrongness is being too far in one direction or the other. More importantly, the wrongness is in not seeing the reality of the situation and failing to adapt to it. (Such as giving us something that fails to grow the user base. Which is by far more important than a PPC machine with "customizable" chips that have, as yet, to prove their worth.)

But that's my two centavos.

Ed.

[Karlos]

I like PPC for the same reason I like most things: variation. I don't regard it as a "must-have". As long as it has the performance to run old apps "better" and new ones adequately I'm not really bothered if there are x86 processors that are far faster. I can, and do, use those just as happily with a different OS.

What I find rather dull is the thought of the day when there is only one hardware platform left and only a choice of OS to differentiate systems.

[barryum]

Lots of pros and cons to viability of the X1000 but to get back to the interview and what it reveals to us.

Trevor said the mainboard manufacturer was a British company that had experience with ppc processors and also intimacy with Xmos.  I believe that's enough info to find who the manufacturer is and thus also the processor.

Look at these links and see what you think.
Products http://www.varisys.co.uk/products.html
and News http://www.varisys.co.uk/news.html

The PA6T-1682M is the closest match to the specs quoted for the X1000 and so there could be a new variant of it and thus evaluation samples being used.   Varisys does work for military and aerospace companies and so may have a guaranteed supply.  The news item for March 18, 2009 provides the corroboration for extensive experience with Xmos.  

It would only make sense that Varisys would want to keep this a secret until final product so as to not upset the "Apple"cart because they're using the PA6T-1682M on a competing (possibly?) platform.  That would be somewhat ironic because Apple's early computers used MOS Technology processors.(That at some point was owned by Commodore) Crossed MOS = Xmos

[KimmoK]

But it isn't a classic Amiga, it runs classic software through UAE, the same way a Mac or PC does.  Only it is far more costly than either of those....

Here is a rough list of AMIGA apps that run in AOS4 directly without UAE.
http://www.blitterwolf.com/testing.html

+ with UAE + enough CPU power, x1000 should be the most compatible official Amiga there has ever been.

[dammy]

What I find rather dull is the thought of the day when there is only one hardware platform left and only a choice of OS to differentiate systems.

Well, there is always ARM arch which seems to have a good long life left in it, unlike PPC.  Vast majority of people do not care what the hardware is as long as they are getting a great deal on the old bang:buck ratio.  That is why I think the X1000 has the potential of being a utter disaster sales wise, it violates the bang:buck ratio for anyone outside the OS4 community.  If Trevor is not focus on selling outside of the OS4, that's fine, but the pool of people who have the cash for it gets very shallow very quickly unless there is some easy financing available, which I doubt.

[Karlos]

@dammy

PPC has plenty of life left it in, just not necessarily as a desktop processor.

[gertsy]

....
What I find rather dull is the thought of the day when there is only one hardware platform left and only a choice of OS to differentiate systems.

Here here!. Vive la difference.

[gertsy]

But it isn't a classic Amiga, it runs classic software through UAE, the same way a Mac or PC does.  Only it is far more costly than either of those....

That wasn't the point I was making.  1500pounds for a complete non mainstream computer is not a lot of money.

@Dammy  Sorry but making a pesudo ipad out of OS4 and proprietry hardware for $500 is just a stupid business plan.  Apple can afford to do it because of their reserve and the numbers they are assured of selling.  $500 would be great for us.  Unfortunately it would cost about twice as much just to manufacture the device. Out of business and in debt after the first run.

[Karlos]

That wasn't the point I was making.  1500pounds for a complete non mainstream computer is not a lot of money.

It is if you don't have it :-/

[dammy]

That wasn't the point I was making.  1500pounds for a complete non mainstream computer is not a lot of money.

If it had a significant use that nothing could compare to it, you might be right.  Problem is, it has zero niche uses other then running AOS4 on a single core.  So not only does it not have any real practical use, the only reason for buying it is for a OS that is not SMP.

@Dammy  Sorry but making a pesudo ipad out of OS4 and proprietry hardware for $500 is just a stupid business plan.

 

So your going with proprietary hardware that the target OS can't take fully advantage of the hardware and charge beyond a reasonable price for it is a smart business plan?  And who said OS4 has to (now Hyperion has full say so) run on proprietary hardware?  

Apple can afford to do it because of their reserve and the numbers they are assured of selling.  $500 would be great for us.  Unfortunately it would cost about twice as much just to manufacture the device. Out of business and in debt after the first run.

I never stipulated it had to be proprietary hardware, that's your end of this discussion.   So exactly how much research did you go into OEM costs to produce a tablet for OS4?  If Apple is selling it for around $600, it sure didn't cost that much to manufacture, they like nice profits as does the retail stores and whatever middlemen their are between Apple and the end user.

[jorkany]

I never stipulated it had to be proprietary hardware, that's your end of this discussion.   So exactly how much research did you go into OEM costs to produce a tablet for OS4?  If Apple is selling it for around $600, it sure didn't cost that much to manufacture, they like nice profits as does the retail stores and whatever middlemen their are between Apple and the end user.

Plus Apple provides a warranty. Since anyone buying OS4 hardware is likely unfamiliar with that term, I've provided a dictionary link. Definition #3 applies.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/warranty

[haywirepc]

£1500 is a huge amount for a niche system with dual processors but only one works...
 
You can pick a computer out of the trash for free and run aros. I wish them the very best but I'd be amazed if they sold 100 of these things.
 
Steven

[EDanaII]

That wasn't the point I was making. 1500pounds for a complete non mainstream computer is not a lot of money.

It is if you don't have it :-/

Which is precisely the point some of us are making: too much money, too little power, not justified for the current user base. Their first priority should be to grow that user base and this just won't do it.

I like PPC for the same reason I like most things: variation. I don't regard it as a "must-have". As long as it has the performance to run old apps "better" and new ones adequately I'm not really bothered if there are x86 processors that are far faster. I can, and do, use those just as happily with a different OS.

What I find rather dull is the thought of the day when there is only one hardware platform left and only a choice of OS to differentiate systems.

You know what, Karlos? Me too! Or in my case, I want competition. Real honest to goodness competition with Windows and Mac. Once again, that's not going to happen if we don't grow the userbase, and that won't happen if we don't give them reasonable priced hardware.

Now, to be clear, I don't care how that price is achieved, I've even stated elsewhere: "if it must be PPC, then XBox, Wii or PS3." This too, would get affordable hardware into a larger userbase than this X1000 ever could.

I lean towards x86 simply because of the price/performance ratio. Beyond that, I don't really care.

[Amiga_Nut]

Ok since we are talking comparative value then we should use the average UK house price as a base.

Our constant is £1500 - Launch price in UK of A1000 and suggested launch price of X1000

Average UK house price in 1985 £31000
Average UK house price in 2010 £223000

Therefore an A1000 (£1500) was 4.8% of the average house value in 1985
Whereas an X1000 (£1500) will be 0.67% of the average house value in 2010

So an X1000 today is about 7.2x less expensive than an A1000 in 1985.


Clearly ignoring the technological gulf that the A1000 represented in 1985

1. Average price where? In the scottish highlands? Mode or median house price is much more useful than the mean average anyway.
2. Doubt it, at $1300 I don't remember the UK price being anything like £1500

Also you can't compare it like that, the A1000 cost 1/3 price of a top spec 512k Mac, and a lot less than an AT IBM PC with similar spec, hell a PC was easily the same OTT price as that Macintosh. The A1000 was better AND cheaper than either of those two anyway and that's the point, and just 18 months later you could get an A500 for half the price too.  

So in context...what would you get for £1500 in PC hardware today on a like for like basis, a lot is the answer, certainly an i7 of the highest order with the best Nvidia mobo and the best graphics card and ludicrous amounts of memory.  Do Apple even sell normal tower computers still or just that iMac?

[persia]

People don't compare the price of computers to houses, they compare price of computers to computers....  AND in this comparison all you can say about the X1000 is FAIL.