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Offline cv643d

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2010, 12:00:37 AM »
Dickinson seems like a great guy. You almost want to pay 1500 euro for the system just to let the dream live and help out another Amiga user.


But then reality takes you back...    

-In a perfect os4 world there would be no 150 euro MOS on 150 euro Apple hardware.
-In a perfect os4 + MOS world there would be no 0 euro AROS on 0 euro hardware.

Its going to be an interesting year from an Amiga perspective IMHO
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Offline NovaCoder

Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2010, 12:48:17 AM »
All this stuff about the high price is a bit silly, for what it is, it's actually very reasonable (eg I don't they A-Eon are going to get rich selling them).  

I think it's also pretty obvious that if this thing sells 'enough' units, then we can expect a cheaper version from the A-Eon boys.

It will be a interesting time ahead and if it does all fall over in a big heap, at least OS4 would have gone out with a bang.......is there a better way?

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Offline XDelusion

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2010, 03:26:04 AM »
Now that I know more about those involved in the project, I have to say for the first time that I'm actually excited about this. I'm not excited about the price, but the project yes! :)
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Offline TheDaddy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2010, 08:20:09 AM »
Quote from: clusteruk;557328
The reality is, £1500 is not a lot if it earns its keep somehow doing things better or differently than other platforms.

You cannot compare a small scale custom machine like this, built for a low volume market of users that have almost begged for this kind of machine and performance for there favourite AmigaOS4 that HAS to run on PowerPC, soon you will have it, get your credit cards preloaded with some cash.

This price is fair for what you are getting, not in a cost comparison with commodity hardware but with high end kit. Mac Pros start at this kind of price and they are mass market pro end kit. Check out a high end Games PC and you are looking well over a £1000.

Bottom line is forgetting, can I afford one which personally is not yet, I believe they are worth the money and they will please there new owners no end with a huge smile on there face. Plus they will once the potential starts to be realised, offer some great new features for a personal computer. Look at the A1000, only 4096 colours, then DCTV with 24 bit just by encoding a 16 colour images through some custom electronics and outputting to a composite output, genius. Mine then reverts back to RGB so my 25 year old A1000 has 24 bit animation.

I for one will save up, sell some old kit, part ex the girl friend and may even sell my Alfa to buy one. Well maybe not the Alfa :-)

Steve


NEVER, EVER sell the Alfa? Are you nuts?! Which Alfa is it by the way? :)
 

Offline Methuselas

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2010, 11:01:51 AM »
Quote from: Piru;557333

The truth is that Windows, Mac OS X and even Linux beat the crap out of any NG amigoid system in any given task.

£1500 is a lot of money for just a "feel good" hobby system.


AMEN! Give me an "AmigaOne" that I can use to run Windows and/or Mac OS X and I'll gladly pay the price for the board.


Once again, it's what they wanted and that's great, for them. If I'm gonna burn that kinda cash on a computer, I'm going to build one that does *ALL* of the things I need it to do now, running the applications I currently use.

I wish them all the best, though.

-M
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 11:05:04 AM by Methuselas »
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Offline Methuselas

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2010, 11:03:24 AM »
Quote from: asymetrix;557408
I wont buy MorphOS on dead end hardware. The Mac people would just laugh at me taking their scraps.

This parasitic route is not the way for me.

Then don't. I seriously doubt the developers mind, as that's just one more machine available to those that do. :lol:
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2010, 12:31:21 PM »
Quote from: Norway;557404
I'd bet somewhere between 200 and 350 total users of Aros...


Which is way up from the few dozen.  There are now two commercially available systems that run AROS being sold and a third (ARM) in the pipeline and none of those are asking $2,000USD if a person opted to purchase a new system.  

I will also point out to you that C= sold mostly A500/A600/A1200 and very few big box Amigas as a percentage of total sales.  Their cash cow the low cost systems because it would sell in high volume.  One could reasonably say that if C= had never made the A500/A1200, that would have been the end of the Amiga line because they couldn't generate that type of revenue (because the lack of popularity) for future sales and cover their R&D/T&E costs.  It was the low end Amigas (A500/A1200) that generated momentum to create a market for the big box Amigas.

Or if you want to look at it another way, commercial coders want to have a reasonable size market to enter into to recoup their cost of making or porting software.  Without the software, who is going to buy any system, especially if it's a high price one?  If you sold a few hundred units, what commercial company is going to be interested vs selling tens or hundreds of thousand units @ year?  A-EON going high end with high end price tag without having a sizeable low end base to attract users and devs and hope to achieve critical mass has missed something very obvious, IMO.
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Offline klx300r

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2010, 02:54:17 PM »
Quote from: clusteruk;557328
....I for one will save up, sell some old kit, part ex the girl friend and may even sell my Alfa to buy one. Well maybe not the Alfa :-)

Steve

great comparison Steve but please don't sell the Alfa ! computers are great but nothing beats a nice drive on a beautiful day:)
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Offline jorkany

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2010, 03:37:03 PM »
Quote from: ddniUK;557305
Ok since we are talking comparative value then we should use the average UK house price as a base.

Our constant is £1500 - Launch price in UK of A1000 and suggested launch price of X1000

Average UK house price in 1985 £31000
Average UK house price in 2010 £223000

Therefore an A1000 (£1500) was 4.8% of the average house value in 1985
Whereas an X1000 (£1500) will be 0.67% of the average house value in 2010

So an X1000 today is about 7.2x less expensive than an A1000 in 1985.

I hear VCRs and CD players were relatively expensive when they came out. Computers are a commodity now, how expensive an A1000 was in 1985 is no longer meaningful.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 03:37:31 PM by jorkany »
 

Offline persia

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2010, 03:38:58 PM »
Exactly, why not port OS 4 to the Limebook?
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Offline recidivist

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2010, 04:18:23 PM »
I still kind of wonder why no one has made a deal with some Chinese factory to churn out a run of Amiga 1200s with updated CPU to sell for $99-149?Or even "stock" A1200 card in a small case sans kybd and floppy?
Didn't someone put the C64 in a joystick?

I play around with MorphOS-demo  occasionally on 2  efikas and one Mac mini 1.5,just can't  justify the license fee  to myself in view of free linux and existing Win?ac OS.I am one of those not too proud to use an older computer or drive an older car as long as it gets the job done .

IF I had the $1500 to spare then I would probably buy an AEon 1000 for the uniqueness and as a bit of support for the hobby;of course,IF  I had the money to spare then I would have already bought a SAM long ago.(And sent Piru and friends some money ,too.!)

How many here lurk because they maintain a fond interest in things Amiga but  can't  spend the money for current hardware?
 Perhaps it is  simlar to people who go see classic cars of their youth and admire those cars but just can't  justify one in their household budget?
 

Offline Crumb

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2010, 04:29:30 PM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;557394
Well, there is already hardware for AmigaOS that people can afford.  That's what the entry level SAM systems are for.  I suppose you could still critisise the SAM systems as being expensive if you're going to compare their performance/price ratio, but again that comes down to economies of scale and there's nothing we can do about that right now.


Yes, Sam440 is too expensive. It has been released 5 years later than Pegasos2 and is both slower and more expensive. We are talking in both cases (Peg2 and Sam440) about a small market so the low performance and the high price lacks any sense if you really want to make OS4 popular.

Quote
But, the fact remains, there are already affordable alternatives to run AmigaOS4 on if people prefer to go down that route.  


I'm afraid there are not. Sam440 is not affordable. Moana would have been affordable but Hyperion decided to milk the users forcing them to buy überexpensive outdated hardware.

Quote
The X1000 isn't cheap because it's a high end system and, in small market like this, it's going to command high prices.


Our definition of "high-end" seems to differ. x1000 cpu is almost low end by today's standards. You can only find slower cpus in netbooks and even some of them now have dualcore Atoms (probably faster).

Quote
Still, even those prices aren't too bad when you consider what we're already putting up with on the second hand Amiga accelerator market.


Second hand Amiga accelerators are überexpensive collectors retro stuff, something that hardly looks reasonable once you use 5 minutes MorphOS/OS4 on a Mac Mini.

It's a pity they didn't publish Mac Mini version as they could have easily multiplied by 2 current OS4 base.

What AmigaOS4 needs is expanding its userbase to the maximum and x1000 won't achieve that. A powerbook G4 release would sell much more than any sam/x1000 version.


All in all: switching to 64bit will break binary compatibility, they could port it to x86 while they are doing that. If you sum the money invested in creating x1000, porting the OS to it and adding new features... you could do a x86-64 version using AROS drivers to save up developer time.
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Offline recidivist

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2010, 05:24:29 PM »
Given history of Amiga users software "sharing" the owners of Amiga OS probably feel that a hardware dongle is the only way to ensure they make a little profit.

Perhaps Amiga OS owners Hyperion should have discussions with MorphOS developers and learn how to implement similar  software lock to hardware?
 

Offline halvliter'n

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2010, 05:32:50 PM »
If I will demonstrate the new computer to friends who are former Amiga users I do not forward an Mac or Microsoft-PC, it would be purely ridiculous, the Amiga is about more than just an OS.
But I agree the price is somewhat high if you add tax and shipping, at least for me.

...and a good and interesting interview. Time to save money for a few months+ ahead.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 05:58:49 PM by halvliter'n »
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Offline persia

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2010, 06:01:50 PM »
The Amiga was about doing more with cutting edge hardware and software.  The new AmigaOS/AmigaOne is not cutting edge in either.  The X1000 is an elitist hobbyist machine.  It's about bragging rights in an ever shrinking community.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #59 from previous page: May 10, 2010, 06:17:47 PM »
Quote from: persia;557576
The Amiga was about doing more with cutting edge hardware and software.  The new AmigaOS/AmigaOne is not cutting edge in either.  The X1000 is an elitist hobbyist machine.  It's about bragging rights in an ever shrinking community.


I'd say that is a perfect summary.
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