Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: QA with Alan Redhouse  (Read 7562 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SlimJim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 752
    • Show only replies by SlimJim
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2003, 07:14:22 PM »
@bloodline
 
Well, have you ASKED Alan about getting a developer
machine? What did he say?
.
SlimJim
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12114
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2003, 07:37:26 PM »
Quote

SlimJim wrote:
@bloodline
 
Well, have you ASKED Alan about getting a developer
machine? What did he say?
.
SlimJim


I sent him an Email asking him iif he would like to donate a board to the Team for the specific purpose of getting AROS running on it.
I also asked if he would provide full technical support for our task of porting the OS.

I recieved no reply :-(

Offline lempkee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 2860
    • Show only replies by lempkee
    • http://www.amigaguru.com
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2003, 07:46:39 PM »
bloodline:where is that link to 68k aros ? , i lost track of the thread where u was supposed to have info about it + aros for non x86 machines.

Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12114
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2003, 07:54:50 PM »
Quote

lempkee wrote:
bloodline:where is that link to 68k aros ? , i lost track of the thread where u was supposed to have info about it + aros for non x86 machines.



There should be an old Build on Aminet somewhere, but idealy you should build a freah one from the sources. You have a linux machine so it should not be too hard. If you have any problems just ask on our mailing list or IRC :-)

-Edit- Currently there are three 68k builds, One for the Palm, One for 68K Linux (running on an Amiga) and One for the Amiga to replace parts of the OS. AFAIK all three are binary compatible with AmigaOS programs.

Offline DaveP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 2116
    • Show only replies by DaveP
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2003, 09:28:38 AM »
Come on Matt, I have made a generous genuine offer to help you
get an A1 for AROS and all we get is silence.

An answer would be great, otherwise I might start to think
that you don't really want an A1, it's just another excuse
to try and show the "triarchy" in a poor light ;-)
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline Hammer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1996
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by Hammer
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2003, 11:20:52 AM »
@Mr A . Redhouse. Just a minor point.

Quote

In addition the AmigaOne has a major inbuilt bandwidth benefit compared to normal PC architecture. This is because the transparent synchronous design of the Articia S allows direct memory-AGP transfers without suspending cpu-memory operations as is required in the x86 world. Just ask any user who has installed the same version of, say, PPC Linux on an 800 MHz AmigaOne and a PC of 3x that clock speed as to which is the most responsive. The A1 wins every time.
- Mr A . Redhouse, Nov 2003.

To quote nVidia's IGP TwinBank Memory Architecture for the AMD K7(X86-32) platform.

III. The TwinBank Architecture
Crossbar Memory Controller
TwinBank consists of two independent 64-bit DDR-266 memory controllers (MC0 and MC1) to deliver a
whopping 4.2GB/s peak memory bandwidth**. This is four times the memory bandwidth of PC133 SDR
memory and over two-and-a-half times of single RAC 800MHz DRDRAM. The radical crossbar memory
controller enables CPU and GPU to concurrently access the two 64-bit memory banks and is optimized for
64-bit CPU and GPU accesses to ensure near perfect bandwidth utilization. The two memory controllers
are interleaved so that consecutive CPU memory requests can be started before the previous one is
completed, reducing CPU read latency. The TwinBank architecture allows the two independent 64-bit
memory controllers to access 128-bits of data on each clock cycle using DDR memory, effectively fetching
256-bits of data total on each clock cycle. Since the high-performance CPU and GPU data types are
optimized for 64-bit access, both can access the two memory banks simultaneously and independently,
fully utilizing available memory bandwidth. The average read latency of the CPU is now greatly reduced,
which increases both graphics and system performance. Without this type of architecture, there would be
tremendous bottlenecks in the system with the high-performance CPU and GPU both struggling for
access to valuable system memory bandwidth.
 - (1)


the end-user has the option of using an even more powerful
external AGP GPU, such as NVIDIA’s GeForce3, which also takes full advantage of the TwinBank dual
independent 64-bit memory controller architecture for dramatic increases in performance.
- (1)

This optimization is on top of NVIDIA's "dynamic adaptive speculative pre-processor" (DASP)(2).

Applying generalization in relation X86 markets is not recommended in the light of intense competition in the X86 market.

Reference.
1.
NVIDIA nForce IGP TwinBank Memory Architecture, Pages 5,7.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/LO_20010528_5545.html
2. http://www.nvidia.com/object/dasp_tech_brief.html

**Minor updates; Corresponding bandwidth increases with PC3200.

Can one realistically apply "The A1 wins every time" (in regards latency) for the Opteron/AthlonFX/Athlon64 X86 based systems?

Quote

This is because the transparent synchronous design of the Articia S allows direct memory-AGP transfers without suspending cpu-memory operations as is required in the x86 world.

I don’t think one could fit both CPU’s bandwidth (e.g. 3.2GB/s) and AGP’s bandwidth (e.g. 2.1GB/s for AGPX8) on a single channel 64bit bandwidth (e.g. 3.2GB/s). The Northbridge’s bandwidth must at least equal the aggregate bandwidth of CPU and AGP for concurrent access. NVIDIA's dual channel controller enables this for AMD K7’s case. Bad luck for VIA K7 KTxxx users.

Intel Pentium VI’s QDR800 (6.4GB/s) pretty much consumes the dual channel DDR400 bandwidths (e.g. 6.4GB/s).
Amiga 1200 PiStorm32-Emu68-RPI 4B 4GB.
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB, RTX 4080 16 GB PC.
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12114
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2003, 12:09:23 PM »
Quote

DaveP wrote:
Come on Matt, I have made a generous genuine offer to help you
get an A1 for AROS and all we get is silence.

An answer would be great, otherwise I might start to think
that you don't really want an A1, it's just another excuse
to try and show the "triarchy" in a poor light ;-)


The reason why I would have to turn down your offer is the same as why we had to turn down a similar offer from Genesi.

AROS has to remain Platform independant. If you work on the porting AROS to the A1, 99% of the code would be the same as all the other version of AROS, only the boot code and lowlevel drivers (we use AmigaOS style resources as a sort of HAL) would need to be A1 specific (and probably almost identical to the Pegasos port).

I would be very happy to start a bounty for porting to the A1 that you would be welcome to work on though. :-)

Offline DaveP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 2116
    • Show only replies by DaveP
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2003, 01:09:49 PM »
Quote

The reason why I would have to turn down your offer is the same as why we had to turn down a similar offer from Genesi.

ROS has to remain Platform independant. If you work on the porting AROS to the A1, 99% of the code would be the same as all the other version of AROS, only the boot code and lowlevel drivers (we use AmigaOS style resources as a sort of HAL) would need to be A1 specific (and probably almost identical to the Pegasos port).

Right. I don't see how my offer breaks this.

Quote

I would be very happy to start a bounty for porting to the A1 that you would be welcome to work on though.


Im confused. Seriously, not teasing. You wanted an A1 to
port AROS ( a fine thing ), and indeed were quite unhappy that
it didn't happen. I offer to donate towards getting you an
A1 ( and Im sure the donations would have piled up quick ) to
port AROS, and now you don't want one - you would rather
I did the port for you?

--- getting a bit lost.

Dave.
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12114
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2003, 01:21:42 PM »
Quote

DaveP wrote:
Quote

The reason why I would have to turn down your offer is the same as why we had to turn down a similar offer from Genesi.

ROS has to remain Platform independant. If you work on the porting AROS to the A1, 99% of the code would be the same as all the other version of AROS, only the boot code and lowlevel drivers (we use AmigaOS style resources as a sort of HAL) would need to be A1 specific (and probably almost identical to the Pegasos port).

Right. I don't see how my offer breaks this.

Quote

I would be very happy to start a bounty for porting to the A1 that you would be welcome to work on though.


Im confused. Seriously, not teasing. You wanted an A1 to
port AROS ( a fine thing ), and indeed were quite unhappy that
it didn't happen. I offer to donate towards getting you an
A1 ( and Im sure the donations would have piled up quick ) to
port AROS, and now you don't want one - you would rather
I did the port for you?

--- getting a bit lost.

Dave.


I am probably missunderstanding what you want to do.

Ok, If we start a Bounty for the porting of AROS to the A1, then you will be happy to work on it?

or

You would be happy to put money into a bounty for an A1 port?

or

you want to create a separate organisation to port AROS to the A1...

What ever way you would be happiest, you would have to work very closely with the Pegasos and LinuxPPC people.

Offline Panthro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 294
    • Show only replies by Panthro
    • http://www.hell-fish.tk
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2003, 01:53:01 PM »
no he just wants to throw money at you so you can get an A1 for you own efforts as in the AROS related ones you Emailed Alan about!!
-Panthro
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12114
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2003, 02:00:38 PM »
Quote

Panthro wrote:
no he just wants to throw money at you so you can get an A1 for you own efforts as in the AROS related ones you Emailed Alan about!!


An A1 isn't enough though... Genesi are providing technical support for the Pegasos port, Eyetech would need to provied the same (or we wold need a dev who already knows the A1 system).

Offline takemehomegrandma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2990
    • Show only replies by takemehomegrandma
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2003, 03:17:23 PM »
Perhaps a dumb question, but would you need a some kind of license from Amiga Inc to get the detailed technical support and information needed to port an OS to the A1 hardware? Is there some kind of EULA or some other kind of obstacle preventing this? I know that these questions might be dumb, but while there has been a lot of discussions about all the obstacles in getting the OS4 to run on different HW platforms, I have not seen any discussions about the "other way around". Would it be possible to port and sell, say, MorphOS for A1 motherboards today, before even OS4 is out? I know that the A1 has some special ROM, and Amiga Inc's love for EULA's, protection, dongles etc is kind of notorious. So would be possible to get all info needed to port AROS or MorphOS to the A1 without any hazzle?
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2003, 03:26:14 PM »
by DaveP on 2003/11/22 4:28:38

Quote
ome on Matt, I have made a generous genuine offer to help you
get an A1 for AROS and all we get is silence.

An answer would be great, otherwise I might start to think
that you don't really want an A1, it's just another excuse
to try and show the "triarchy" in a poor light


Dave, goto the TeamAROS site, donate and send me email on how you want the bounty to read.

Dammy
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline Iggy_Drougge

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2003
  • Posts: 333
    • Show only replies by Iggy_Drougge
    • http://www.kristallpojken.org
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2003, 01:24:47 PM »
Quote

If the Queen started a line of PPC (or any other interesting architecture) computers, sure, I'd Email here and ask her if the AROS team could have sone to port AROS to it.


You know, the king (of Sweden, that is) is reported to have bought several Atari ST machines. Why not port AROS to that one in the meantime?
A4000/25MHz/64MB/20GB/RetinaBLTZ3/FastlaneZ3/CatweaselMKIII/Ariadne/A2301
A3000/40MHz/32MB/6GB/Merlin/Buddha/X-Surf/FrameMachineII+Prism24
Draco60/50MHz/128MB/15GB/Altais/DracoMotion/DV/IOblix+net
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12114
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2003, 01:38:59 PM »
Quote
You know, the king (of Sweden, that is) is reported to have bought several Atari ST machines. Why not port AROS to that one in the meantime?


I'd love to see AROS on an ST... (actually I'd rather see it on a Falcon) but are there any developers left who know anything about it anymore?

Offline JurassicCamper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2002
  • Posts: 635
    • Show only replies by JurassicCamper
Re: QA with Alan Redhouse
« Reply #29 from previous page: November 24, 2003, 01:52:52 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:


:-) actually I did read the interview. but you are right that, I'm a little sensitive about he's lack of interest in AROS :-)


I don't thinks it just Alan.
I'm not interested in AROS or MORPHOS and I'm not going to pretend I am. I'm sure you doing a great job and your a great person. Nothing personal I'm just not interested either.

Edit .... mis read a post
A1200T PPC 330Mhz in a Custom Modified Fractal Design R3 Case