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Author Topic: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?  (Read 17208 times)

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Offline Jope

Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2010, 03:52:28 PM »
You do not have to solder the chips into the motherboard for 1MB chip. That's a lot of trouble and you'd lose the trapdoor anyway if you did that
  • , so why bother.


You can just plug in the trapdoor expansion, then you need to reconfigure two solder pad-style jumpers on the motherboard.

Also a 1MB capable Agnus is needed. On a Rev6 A500, this is almost guaranteed, on a Rev5 you need to upgrade the Agnus.

Look at aminet docs/hard for the instructions.

  • it is possible to retain trapdoor slow RAM at $C00000 and have 1MB of chip RAM on the motherboard, but that is a more involved hack.
 

Offline Super TWiTTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2010, 03:57:36 PM »
The only reason I ask if I NEED the ram is that I am a cheap skate, but want to be able to run ecs software on my amiga. How much ram should I have to be ecs compliant?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 04:02:36 PM by Super TWiT »
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Offline runequester

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2010, 04:14:21 PM »
Quote from: Super TWiT;554235
The only reason I ask if I NEED the ram is that I am a cheap skate, but want to be able to run ecs software on my amiga. How much ram should I have to be ecs compliant?


I cant think of much that REQUIRES more than 1 meg. This is what the 500+ and 600 shipped with, i believe
 

Offline Tenacious

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2010, 04:15:22 PM »
ECS was simply a the next revision of some of the custom chips (Agnus can address 1 or 2 megs of chip ram instead of 512K, there was a productivity video mode added, etc).

The jumper pad mod mentioned above consolidates the trap door ram into true chip ram memory space (all the custom chips have access to it after the mod).  It's easy to do and worthwile.  Before the mod is done, trapdoor memory is neither  true fast ram nor true chip ram (it doesn't run as fast as the CPU, nor is it usable by the custom chips).

IIRC, some rev 5s shipped with 1 meg Agnus chips.
 

Offline Tenacious

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2010, 04:24:37 PM »
There are several DIY instruction files on Aminet for the mod.  Start there if you want to do this.

I am not aware of any software that chokes on this modification.
 

Offline Super TWiTTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2010, 04:25:29 PM »
So, I wouldn't be able to run ecs software if I just had a trapdoor ram expansion?
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Offline Tenacious

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2010, 04:32:56 PM »
I'm hard pressed to remember any software specifying ECS chips.  Your machine is probably fine as is for games and early productivity stuff.

I first heard about the consolidated chip ram mod when the A570 came out.  This mod is usually done by ppl who want to push the A500 to it's limits.
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2010, 04:36:21 PM »
Do you mean AGA? If you mean AGA you have to get an A1200 or A4000. If you're looking at games website ECS also means OCS, so no upgrade needed. ECS/OCS is an abreviation for non-AGA Amiga (old chipset, enhanced chipset).

On the motherboard Agnus basically came in 3 types: 512k for Amiga 500, 1MB for Amiga 2000 making OCS. 2MB for Amiga 3000. Chip memory is similar to graphics memory on a PC.
Super Denise, plug in replacement for Denise added some screen modes (still only max 4,096 colors) and one command was sped up.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 04:50:23 PM by ElPolloDiabl »
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Offline Tenacious

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2010, 04:45:08 PM »
OTOH, I suppose ECS is used to differentiate software that does not require the more advanced AGA chips.  When said like this, I believe most, if not all, software spec'd for ECS (with or without the mod) would also run on OCS (original chip set).

EDIT: Oops, Fanscale got there first.
 

Offline Super TWiTTopic starter

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2010, 05:42:48 PM »
So ECS apps will run on OCS hardware? Than what was the point for ecs?
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Offline Matt_H

Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2010, 06:29:43 PM »
ECS Agnus introduced the ability to switch between PAL and NTSC in software and expanded the maximum amount of chip RAM to 1MB (2MB later on with the 500+, 600, and 3000). ECS Denise added the SuperHiRes, Multiscan, and Super72 screenmodes.

Odds are good you already have an ECS Agnus, in which case you should just be able to pop in some trapdoor RAM and get 1MB of chip RAM. Type 'avail' in a shell to see how your machine has configured your RAM. If you have WB 2.x, run ShowConfig to learn more about your chips.
 

Offline AmigaHope

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2010, 07:06:59 PM »
Quote from: Super TWiT;554259
So ECS apps will run on OCS hardware? Than what was the point for ecs?
OK there's a lot of misinformation in this thread! Here's the rundown:

ECS adds, to my knowledge, six new features:

WITH ONLY FAT AGNUS UPGRADE:

1. Supports larger Chip Memory (addressable by custom chipset). Old Agnus/Fat Agnus chips allowed only 512k to be addressable. ECS Fat Agnus supports 1MB in one version (most common -- shipped in late-model A500s), 2MB in the more expensive variation (this variation shipped stock in the A500+, A600, and A3000). This lets you have more audio/video data in memory without having to swap it out between fast RAM. It lets you have more and larger screens open, more windows, etc.

There are actually a small-but-significant number of games that supported improved audio quality and subtly improved graphics if you had at least 1MB of Chip (plus at least a small amount of other RAM). The improvements were small, but I've encountered some nonetheless that did do this.

Also, there's a VERY small number games (probably can count on one hand) that *require* more Chip RAM but don't require AGA. Like maybe 2-3. The only one I can remember right now is Dungeon Master II. These games were actually usually labeled as "AGA-only" by the publishers because they were worried that people with OCS systems (and people with ECS Agnus but still had only 512M Chip RAM) would be confused and not understand why it didn't work.

2. ECS Fat Agnus has a new blitter that supports blitting twice as much data in a single operation. To my knowledge, there is NO software that actually requires this feature. Also, I don't think there are any hardware-banging games that even take advantage of this feature. Software that uses OS function calls to move data around may get a small speedup from this.

3. Software programmable vertical sync. In OCS, your vertical refresh is permanently fixed at 50Hz or 60Hz, depending on whether or not you had a PAL or NTSC system. No games use this. It does, however, have the important benefit of letting you change your vertical refresh between 50Hz and 60Hz to support PAL/NTSC versions of games on opposite systems. If you have an NTSC system this lets you play PAL games without cutting off the bottom of the screen, and without vblank-timed effects (often music) from running too fast. On PAL systems it lets you run NTSC games without effects running too slow, and without "squashing" the screen onto the top of the display.

In addition, the programmable vertical refresh lets you create interesting screenmodes when you combine it with the ECS Denise (see below).

WITH BOTH ECS AGNUS *AND* ECS DENISE (shipped stock in A500+, A600, A3000):

4. Software programmable horizontal sync. OCS Denise has a fixed horizontal sync of approximately 15Khz. With ECS Denise you had full control of the sync timings, you can create arbitrary screenmodes with varying refresh rates and geometries. AmigaOS ships with a number of these -- my favorite being Euro72, which lets you have an interlaced display at 72Hz which helps reduce visible flicker.

5. High-frequency audio. Paula's maximum sample rates are determined by the rate of DMA fetches, which is determined based on the video horizontal sync rate. On the fixed OCS 15Khz sync, this allowed a maximum audio sample rate of 28Khz. With ECS Denise you can let Paula push over 56Khz audio rate if you run in a screenmode with 31Khz video  horizontal sync. This is a side-effect of how Paula works, and Paula itself has no differences between OCS and ECS. For reference, audio CDs run at 44.1Khz and DAT runs at 48Khz. Coupled with the 14-bit channel-combining hack, you can get what is *almost* CD-quality audio (2 14-bit channels at 44.1Khz) on ECS.

6. Faster pixel clock. OCS and ECS share the same maximum DMA bandwidth. OCS supported two pixel clocks -- 140ns and 70ns (called low-res and high-res). Because DMA bandwidth does not actually go up, in 140ns you could have video up to 6 bits wide (64-color EHB mode, and HAM-6) and in 70ns you could have up to 4 bits (16-color mode). 140ns mode actually had enough bandwidth for 8 bits, but Denise can only handle 6 maximum. With a full ECS chipset, there is an additional 35ns pixel clock (called Super Hi-Res) that supports a maximum of 2 bits (4-color mode). At 35ns you could have 1280+ horizontal pixels at 15Khz horizontal refresh and 640+ horizontal pixels at 31Khz horizontal refresh, etc.

AmigaOS shipped with premade screenmode definitions that took advantage of the 35ns pixel clock. These included the "Dbl" modes, "Productivity", and the "Super72" 800x600 mode. Since you're limited to only 4 colors at 35ns pixels though, in practice not many people used these modes until AGA came out with increased DMA bandwidth (allowing 8 bits at all three pixel clock rates).

...

There is basically no software out there that requires the 3 features enabled by ECS Denise, though a lot of audio software benefited immensely from the higher-bitrate audio you could get.

Upgrading:

ECS Fat Agnus and ECS Denise are drop-in replacements that work out of the box on all OCS systems except for the A1000 (which used the "Thin" Agnus -- there is no ECS Thin Agnus). Dropping them in will enable all the extra features instantly except for the extra Chip Memory.

On the A500 and A1500/A2000/A2500, the Fat Agnus socket's address lines need to be slightly reconfigured in order for the system to map the second bank of 512k on the chipmem bus into the custom chipset address space (i.e. the range that Fat Agnus can address). On older mobo revisions this involved modifying circuit traces, but on newer ones they ran the traces to jumper pads to make it easier to change.

The physical memory on the bus exists by default on the motherboard on the A1500/A2000/A2500. On the A500 this can be added via a card in the trapdoor slot, although you can also solder the chips directly to the motherboard if you want. Older A500 revisions had no provision for this, but you could hack the chips onto the bus (usually by "piggybacking" them on top of the existing RAM chips). Newer A500s have extra solder points on the motherboard specifically to accommodate the extra RAM. Generally there isn't much point of this and you might as well use the trapdoor.

A note about the trapdoor expansions/motherboard RAM. This RAM exists on the Chip Memory bus, so when the custom chipset's DMA seizes the bus for operations, the CPU can't talk to it, regardless of whether the OS considers it Chip or Fast. This means that it's not "real" Fast Memory that the CPU has exclusive bandwidth to. Because of this, the community generally refers to this memory as "Slow Memory" when it's not mapped as Chip.

Also note that the Fat Agnus socket on the A500 and A1500/A2000/A2500 does not have enough physical address lines wired to it to support 2M of Chip, regardless of how much memory is on the Chipmem bus. If you drop a 2M Fat Agnus into this socket, it will work, but it will only ever be able to address 1M.

There are, however, expansion boards out there that provide the extra address line and onboard RAM to let the 2M Agnus have its full addressable space. One example is the DKB MegaChip. The board has the 2M Agnus mounted on it and then drops into the Fat Agnus socket.

....

Hopefully these explanations help! =D
 

Offline Jope

Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2010, 07:31:54 PM »
Quote from: AmigaHope;554274
If you drop a 2M Fat Agnus into this socket, it will work


Are you absolutely sure about this?

I haven't verified the pinouts myself, but I seem to remember that they are not compatible enough to just be dropped into a rev6 or earlier A500.
 

Offline AmigaHope

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Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2010, 07:35:32 PM »
Quote from: Jope;554277
Are you absolutely sure about this?

I haven't verified the pinouts myself, but I seem to remember that they are not compatible enough to just be dropped into a rev6 or earlier A500.
Hmm, you may be correct, now that I think about it, I've never actually tested it. Memory a bit fuzzy on that front.

Doesn't really matter though as why would you spend the extra money to buy a 2M one when either way you'd get no benefit over a 1M one if you're just doing a drop-in replace?
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2010, 08:03:00 PM »
Quote from: Super TWiT;554194
I know this probably has been asked before, but a google search didn't seem to reveal any answers. How do I upgrade the ram on my amgia 500 to 1 mb? I have a fat agnus chip.


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Offline arttu80

Re: Upgrade Ram to 1 MB Amiga 500?
« Reply #29 from previous page: April 18, 2010, 08:47:57 PM »
Quote from: AmigaHope;554279
Hmm, you may be correct, now that I think about it, I've never actually tested it. Memory a bit fuzzy on that front.

Doesn't really matter though as why would you spend the extra money to buy a 2M one when either way you'd get no benefit over a 1M one if you're just doing a drop-in replace?



No it didn't work on my B2000 Rev6 1Mb CHIP RAM configured machine. I tried to put 8375 Super Fat Agnus (from A500Plus) just for fun, but it didn't even fired up...