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Offline jj

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #179 from previous page: May 20, 2010, 02:58:57 PM »
Code is not as efficent as when it was written for one piece of hardware. This is true. That is not to say its inefficient. Even if it is. It doesn't matter with todays hardware.
 
ITs not, on the whole, windows and apps that push ram, cpus etc fwd. Its games.
 
Get over it.
 
Windows 7 is actually a decent OS. Does it matter how big it is. And what the fook has an enclypedia got to do with anything. Nothing. Its apples and oranges.
 
Are you being purposfully retarded.  Because somethign contains lots of information but fits on cd rom, then windows should be smaller that a cd-rom .
 
Is that your argument ?
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Offline tone007

Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #180 on: May 20, 2010, 03:31:00 PM »
Quote from: KThunder;559723
What I am asking is this: what are you saying here? what hardware do you think is sufficient you everyone, and what os? And why?


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Offline Arkhan

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #181 on: May 20, 2010, 03:33:32 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;559695
BUT THIS IS THE POINT.  F'en 8 CORES!!!!!!!! RUNNING AT 3,200 MHZ. 16,000 MB OF RAM!!!! AN i5 IS NOW "BASIC".  TO DO WHAT? RUN A FRICKEN GUI?  Play a movie. That plays better on a $149 Bluray player from China.  Play some same old same old FPS.  That works better on a $199 XBOX?

:roflmao:   The cores aren't to "run a fricken gui".   There is more to a computer than a "fricken gui".    I'd like to see an Amiga run an SLI rig and pump out jabillions of polygons a second.

Yes it seems trivial to have a beefed up computer to run simple things, but if you notice when you are running simple things.... the CPU usage doesn't even move?

"The same old FPS".  Maybe to you, mr angry at the modern computer man.  To the rest of the gaming world, we are enjoying our state of the art mobos with tricked out video cards, tons of ram, and lightning fast games.

I think you are being very ignorant.  

Quote

Sorry when I read post like yours, and I've read many over the years, and each year the specs get higher and higher, I am convinced that people have lost perspective and have no idea what those specs actually mean.  Here's a little help: you can get the entire text plus pictures of the 32 volume Encyclopedia on ONE  0.6 GB ie 650 MB CD.

What is your point?  You can fit encyclopedias on a CD!  Cool!  You can also fit things like games, movies, music, other books.  They're great stuff man.

Specs are supposed to get higher and higher.  Duh.  If they never got any better, technology wouldn't progress.  We'd be walking around listening to vinyl records, and going MAN I WISH WE HAD BETTER TECHNOLOGY.


Quote

And you are OK with this?  Its just an OS, FFS.

I do more with my computer than study the OS.  Dunno about you.  Sounds like all you do is turn it on, stare at the fricken GUI, and then complain that your Amiga does the same thing.

Quote

The PC platform was always about:  "If it ain't running fast enough, buy something faster."  Here's a novel idea:  "Write decent code"


No amount of decent code will get Crysis to run on a PC-XT w/ an EGA card.
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Offline KThunder

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #182 on: May 20, 2010, 04:13:23 PM »
I think (hope) we scared him off :)

No not really, I'd like to let him play a modern game on one of my pcs. Maybe something like Bioshock or Bioshock 2 on my current rig, then setup one of my P4's and run the same game.
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Offline amoskodare

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #183 on: May 20, 2010, 04:49:58 PM »
EDIT: nevermind
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 04:58:30 PM by amoskodare »
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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #184 on: May 20, 2010, 05:23:11 PM »
Quote from: Arkhan;559736
No amount of decent code will get Crysis to run on a PC-XT w/ an EGA card.

Nor a P4 3ghz with a 7 series Nvidia.  Oh wait-itll run good as long as I keep it to 1024x768 and no antialiasing :(

Quote from: KThunder;559742
I think (hope) we scared him off :)

No not really, I'd like to let him play a modern game on one of my pcs. Maybe something like Bioshock or Bioshock 2 on my current rig, then setup one of my P4's and run the same game.

Yeah.  This is kind of why I went console.  I find the price point to obsolescense is much better.  I mean, sure, with an awesome monitor and screming PC Fallout 3 would look that much denser, etc.  On my 360 at 1080p on a big LCD it looks plenty amazing.  I've had my 360 since 2006 and it still plays modern games.  I've had my P4 only slightly longer, and it is relegated to the occasional game of Civ 4 or Nexuiz :lol:.

Not knocking it, just knocking that I cant throw down a grand or two on a 12 core SLI screamer ATM :(
 

Offline amoskodare

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #185 on: May 20, 2010, 06:07:37 PM »
"Ikadalawampu by Loonies" captured

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Offline persia

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #186 on: May 20, 2010, 06:12:15 PM »
Exactly an OS is not an end in itself.  The OS loads programs and provides the resources those programs need and do it efficiently enough to provide a satisfactory user experience.  

Windows does that in the gaming world.  It also provides a relatively inexpensive platform to do production work on, video, sound, image manipulation, 3D rendering, etc all work just fine in Windows.  

Nobody gives a f### how many times you can read the bounce of a joystick or how many icons you can fit on your screen.  You have a computer to accomplish certain tasks and to a large extent the OS is irrelevant.  I sometimes use a PC to do photoshop and it really isn't all that different an experience to my Mac.

If PCs were so bad and Amigas so good why are there a billion or more PC users and a few hundred Amiga users????  I work in a university, do you know what sits on the desks of Computer Science faculty here?  About 50% Macs and 50% PCs, not one uses a Linux box as their primary machine.  Not one.  And you want to get a chuckle from them?  Suggest that they put an Amiga on their desk.  No powerpoint, no word, no photoshop, no .....

Computers are about getting things done.
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Offline desiv

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #187 on: May 20, 2010, 06:18:59 PM »
Quote from: persia;559767
If PCs were so bad and Amigas so good why are there a billion or more PC users and a few hundred Amiga users????

I'd say that was Commodore's business practices..

Funny thing is tho is that if CBM had been successful, there'd probably be a win.org forum where retro-windows users would be posting about the complete waste of resources that AmigaOS 2010 is; and that they could do huge spreadsheets with only 1M back in the day!!!!!

..or not...  :roflmao:

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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #188 on: May 20, 2010, 06:21:50 PM »
Except Powerpoint can go die in a fire.  I recently went back to college and lectures these days are ppt plus a printed handout of the slideshow outline :madashell:.

I despise the overuse of powerpoint.  Now excel... I couldn't have done any of my previous jobs without it.  Pivot Tables, graphs...IMHO the best thing MS has ever done is Excel.  I've tried OO's version, just isn't the same.
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #189 on: May 20, 2010, 07:01:06 PM »
You always find a use for more power.

I used my mere 4-core system once to run four separate instances of E-UAE, all of which were able to run flat out in JIT mode, each individually outperforming any of my "real" amigas by a breathtaking margin.
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #190 on: May 20, 2010, 07:44:17 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;559771
Except Powerpoint can go die in a fire.  I recently went back to college and lectures these days are ppt plus a printed handout of the slideshow outline :madashell:.

I despise the overuse of powerpoint.  Now excel... I couldn't have done any of my previous jobs without it.  Pivot Tables, graphs...IMHO the best thing MS has ever done is Excel.  I've tried OO's version, just isn't the same.


yeah man, my algorithms class this past semester was taught using the slideshows that came with the book.

then everyone whined AW THERES NOTES BUT NO PRINTOUT? CMON.

and he printed the slideshows out.

I tossed them in the trash, realized we were just being read to, rather than taught, and stopped going except for test days.

Got me a nice A. :D


Powerpoint makes teachers lazy, and students even lazier.


Good for presentations, dumb for notes.
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Offline KThunder

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #191 on: May 20, 2010, 11:12:39 PM »
Iv'e seen powerpoint done well, and poorly. A good professor will use technology, any technology to aid learning, a poor professor will try to use it to teach for them. My Computers and their applications Professor is a mix of the two. Not a very good teacher but great with the tech. He used it to fill in some rather significant gaps, but we learned quite a bit anyway.
Plus he was the bassist in the band Scapegoat (local band) man could he rock!
Oh yeah?!?
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Offline Arkhan

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #192 on: May 20, 2010, 11:55:37 PM »
I prefer hand written notes all over the chalkboard, that you have to manually write down.  no handouts.


It weeds out the lazy bastards in classes.
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Offline TomJ

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #193 on: May 21, 2010, 12:35:12 AM »
Macs and pcs

 a mac has always been a pc let no one tell you different.

on the note the amiga has always been a pc too, but the best of its kind.
 

Offline stefcep2

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #194 on: May 21, 2010, 02:09:31 AM »
Quote from: KThunder;559723
@stefcep2

I think you are making some huge assuptions in most of your points, for example:

"There might be, somewhere. But I doubt it. Windows is programmed by large committees. Big apps are probably the same. Anything done by committee processes is guaranteed to be inefficient."



You apparently have no idea how large apps are written, or what efficient code is. Do you have any examples of this supposed ineffieciency? Or any proof of it.


With MS there are different and numerous departments that deal each deal with sections of the OS.  That inevitably leads to inefficiencies.

Proof?  No I don't have the source code for Windows.  Do you have it and have you checked how tight it is?  I'd say no.  So how do you know one way or the other?  So lets judge it on the end user experience. Here's a few examples.

Click on a close gadget, delay before it its re-drawn to give you feedback that you have clicked it, delay and a feel of "stickyness" before the window closes.  

Every now and then the window closes half corrupted as if there aren't enough resources, but there are.

Does this always happen?  No.  Does it happen predictably, as when under high CPU load?  No.  So whats going on?  

Other annoyances do happen all the fricken' time.

Click on start->All programs, delay before the menu is populated, delay as each program icon is redrawn,  run your pointer up or down and the menu can't keep up to redraw.  Everytime after a cold boot.  (BTW i know WHAT is happening, but how hard its is to write a bit of code that keeps an index of installed programs and corresponding icons that takes a microsecond to load at boot times  A shitty menu added with tools prefs on a crappy 4 meg 14 mhz machine does it faster.)

Why does Win 7 reload the drivers EVERY TIME I plug my mobile modem in?  Why doe sit make me wait 2 minutes later before it recognises the modem, an exceedingly common one that has the latest firmware?  It does the same thing on 5 PC's all less than 2 years old, all updated, some running XP Pro, some Vista Business, some Win 7.  But why never in Ubuntu? (which has its own different issues).

Or what about all the PC's that won't shut down because they wait for some program to exit, but it never does until you end it.  The user has said "SHUT DOWN", why is the OS ignoring that command.

This is all in the realm of the OS, software related ie coding.  Why after all these years with all the resources do lags like this happen?

You might not care, more power to you.  But operating system designers should care.  And if they don't then that doesn't negate the argument.  It just proves another well worn one:  "if it aint fast enough buy faster hardware"

Quote

Should we all ignore new cpu's and ram just because you say so? and what level should we be at? should we all be running g3's or g4's? If so why not 603e's? Is ddr ram ok or should we be using sdram? and how much? we all have different needs but it 64megs ok? or should I only have 2megs?

What I am asking is this: what are you saying here? what hardware do you think is sufficient you everyone, and what os? And why?


Like a few others here, you have totally missed the point: THE OVERALL PERFORMANCE LAGS SIGNIFICANTLY BEHIND THE HARDWARE ADVANCEMENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED.   Read the hardware spec sheets.  Absurdly quick and massive numbers.  And remember, this "hobbling" of the hardware is cumulative over generations. If getting the FULL POTENTIAL out of your hardware doesn't matter to you and you are happy with that, then good for you.

Amiga was always about efficiency, simplicity, elegance and pushing the hardware to its limits with tight, often ingenius code.  The closest I've experienced on a PC was with BeOS.   IMO it was AmigaOS for x86.  On the same PC hardware, it made your Windows and MacOS look pedestrian.  Proof positive that PC hardware could do more than Windows would have you believe.