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Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #89 on: April 12, 2010, 01:08:25 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;553062
Meanwhile, here in the 21st century, I'm finding that the "intel garbage" is actually pretty good. I still have 68K and PPC based amiga machines, which are fun too. But by no stretch of the imagination is the processor in my main machine "garbage".

Must be some weird parallel universe you inhabit where x86 didn't go 64-bit / SSE3 / multicore and PPC is still relevant outside of hobbyist platforms, embedded systems and old routers.


A modern PC, even a proper laptop (ie DELL XPS 17" range not Intel integrated graphics rubbish btw) is a fantastic bit of kit technically speaking but...

1. Windows is utter crap...is it 25 years worth of computer development in hardware comparable ahead of KS/Wb on the A1000? No!

2. The PC is so fast only because it needed to run ever more bloated and useless OS releases from Microdorks ;)

So you can't have one without the other really.
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #90 on: April 12, 2010, 01:12:05 AM »
Quote from: koshman;552978
@ Amiga_Nut: If you consider X40 silent, you've never heard a well put together quiet desktop. I found X40's fan distracting at night when I had it - under my desk it would be fine, under my hands not so - the principal advantage of desktop.


Depends....on my laptops I make sure I have silent HDs and have the max RAM and only run XP. All those combined mean my X40s fan is hardly ever on so for me it is pretty much silent yup. Also make sure the fan is WD40'd up if 2nd hand ;)
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #91 on: April 12, 2010, 02:22:18 AM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;553068

1. Windows is utter crap...is it 25 years worth of computer development in hardware comparable ahead of KS/Wb on the A1000? No!


Karlos primarily uses Linux. Further, the post he was replying to was discussing hardware only. No one mentioned software at all.

Quote from: Amiga_Nut;553068

2. The PC is so fast only because it needed to run ever more bloated and useless OS releases from Microdorks ;)


The Windows might well have encouraged higher speeds to a degree, but applications have come on just as much. As people come up with new and inventive ways of using computers, the requirements go up.
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Offline persia

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #92 on: April 12, 2010, 02:35:03 AM »
Today's computers be they Macs or PCs are able to do video, image and sound editing that one could not even dream about on the Amiga.  Operating systems have become more complex because there's more complex activities for them to do.

Amiga boards live in a sort of alternate reality world where Macs, PCs and Linux boxes have not changed in two decades.  Where people seem to attach almost magical characteristics to IBM's Power architecture.  Where a small cabal of maybe a thousand Amiga Illuminati know more than the billions of other people who use computers, especially than the computer scientists, engineers, academics, et al, who instead of worrying about measuring the bounce of a joystick are wasting their time developing complex solution to world problems.  Don't they know that they could just write that app in Amiga Basic?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 02:38:59 AM by persia »
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Offline runequester

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2010, 02:54:14 AM »
Quote from: persia;553080
Today's computers be they Macs or PCs are able to do video, image and sound editing that one could not even dream about on the Amiga. Operating systems have become more complex because there's more complex activities for them to do.
 
Amiga boards live in a sort of alternate reality world where Macs, PCs and Linux boxes have not changed in two decades. Where people seem to attach almost magical characteristics to IBM's Power architecture. Where a small cabal of maybe a thousand Amiga Illuminati know more than the billions of other people who use computers, especially than the computer scientists, engineers, academics, et al, who instead of worrying about measuring the bounce of a joystick are wasting their time developing complex solution to world problems. Don't they know that they could just write that app in Amiga Basic?

well, there's nothing wrong with wishing for a better option than what the corporations are deciding to offer up for rental.
 
I dont think anyone is genuinely saying that OS 3.1 on an Amiga 1200 is more capable than "insert operation system of choice that is not windows ME". They are saying that they miss the concepts and ideals of that sort of computing.
 

Offline kolla

Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2010, 04:00:24 AM »
Quote from: dreamcast270mhz;552995
@Kolla

I could always use synaptic, but considering that many webpages tell you to use apt-get, I'd say you're the dumbass. In Linux, you have a choice, I prefer using a CLI and building from source for many programs because I get a better optimization than builds provided. That doesn't make me a dumbass, because the package managers for Ubuntu call apt-get, you just insulted an entire distro. You may not like Linux compared to Windows, but Ubuntu and many others are shooting for just that, because the average consumer IS stupid, they're like a fish w/ bait: Oh, I see a flashy desktop with all these useless effects that slow down the hardware, I'm not going to get a clean, simple desktop that will last years.

Heard of aptitude? That's the thing the debiansque elite wants you to use, they've been trying to move people over from apt-get/apt-cache etc. to aptitude for years without much success, hence my "LOL" at the end. No, the package managers for Ubuntu don't use apt-get, if you don't trust me, try renaming /usr/bin/apt-get to whatever, you will notice that aptitude etc still works. As for me insulting Ubuntu - oh no... evil me. I never liked Ubuntu much, just like I never liked Debian much. Part of it is the often zealot userbase (and even developers), that can't take critics and bash other distros for no reason other than not being Debian.
Thank you for illustrating my point so nicely! :laughing:
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 04:15:12 AM by kolla »
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Offline runequester

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #95 on: April 12, 2010, 07:34:06 AM »
Quote from: kolla;553090
Heard of aptitude? That's the thing the debiansque elite wants you to use, they've been trying to move people over from apt-get/apt-cache etc. to aptitude for years without much success, hence my "LOL" at the end. No, the package managers for Ubuntu don't use apt-get, if you don't trust me, try renaming /usr/bin/apt-get to whatever, you will notice that aptitude etc still works. As for me insulting Ubuntu - oh no... evil me. I never liked Ubuntu much, just like I never liked Debian much. Part of it is the often zealot userbase (and even developers), that can't take critics and bash other distros for no reason other than not being Debian.
Thank you for illustrating my point so nicely! :laughing:


Some of the Debian people can be kinda rabid but we need a few people like that holding on to prevent everything from being corporatized.

In the end though, picking an OS based on the userbase seems sort of weird to me, but hey, its a free world out there :)
 

Offline amigadave

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #96 on: April 12, 2010, 07:37:02 AM »
The more often disagreements here on A.org's forums escalate to insults, petty jealousies, ego trips, name calling, defaming the family members of anyone with a different opinion, etc................ , the less I want to visit here and contribute anything to these forums, or help other members with answers to their questions.  I used to lurk here many years ago, but even that is not an appealing option anymore.

I know that Amiga.org and most of it's members are still far better than most other sites, but I see this site getting more and more like other hostile sites every week.

Why can't we disagree without making personal attacks or trying to make the person(s) with opposing view points, or opinions feel attacked or humiliated?

I am not referring specifically to this thread, although I do see parts of this one that have degraded, which just made me not even want to bother reading any further to see if there is anything useful in the thread.

I have almost completely stopped posting at AW.net and only browse their forum topics about one-fourth as often as I used to.  I see myself going in the same direction here at A.org (which maybe many members here will say is no great loss) and I just wish that there were more good discussions with varying views here and less attacks and B.S., like I remember it being here back in 2000-2005.

Can't we all just learn how to express differences in a more adult way and enjoy our common interests?
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline Pyromania

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #97 on: April 12, 2010, 07:45:14 AM »
@amigadave

I agree that personal attacks and insulting others is bad for everyone. If you find a problem please let one of the moderators know. We all work hard to keep Amiga.org a friendly site where members can exchange great ideas and knowledge.
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #98 on: April 12, 2010, 07:45:24 AM »
I agree with the above post.
Some of the petty insults, although funny to the poster, are not that funny to us and usually very childish.
I'm very tolerant however, I realise there are all types that like Amiga and just being on any net forum requires you to have a thick skin. Apologies to those who only come here for news and help.
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Offline amigadave

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #99 on: April 12, 2010, 08:25:50 AM »
Quote from: persia;553080
Today's computers be they Macs or PCs are able to do video, image and sound editing that one could not even dream about on the Amiga.  Operating systems have become more complex because there's more complex activities for them to do.

Amiga boards live in a sort of alternate reality world where Macs, PCs and Linux boxes have not changed in two decades.  Where people seem to attach almost magical characteristics to IBM's Power architecture.  Where a small cabal of maybe a thousand Amiga Illuminati know more than the billions of other people who use computers, especially than the computer scientists, engineers, academics, et al, who instead of worrying about measuring the bounce of a joystick are wasting their time developing complex solution to world problems.  Don't they know that they could just write that app in Amiga Basic?

@persia,

I enjoy good sarcasm as much as almost anybody, and I agree that there are more than a few Amiga zealots around that have totally unrealistic views of current Amiga abilities and chances of a serious comeback, but your apparent point of view that just because a billion people are doing something a particular way, or using a particular OS for most of their important work, doesn't impress me, or automatically make me believe that they are right.  

Amiga users better than any other group know that many factors make certain technologies successful, or dominant and being the "BEST" technology is not always the most important determining factor, for if it was, most of the computer users on this planet would now be using AmigaOS12.4, because version 1.3, or 2.1 would have won the OS battle with it's competitors, Windows 3.x and MacOS6.x.  (some might even say that Commodore did such a bad job that the Amiga never really even got to compete against Windows or MacOS)

I think that almost every member of this site would agree that the original Amiga hardware and the AmigaOS once it had reached version 1.2 to 1.3.3, was the absolute finest combination for personal computing at that point in time.  Commodore is to blame for not capitalizing on what they had and for not showing the whole World the Amiga was the best, and keeping it in a position of leadership, of being the best available combination of hardware and software for personal computing.

As for Mac's and PC's doing video/audio editing that could not be dreamed of on an Amiga, I would say only that the rendering speed, video resolution and audio frequency limits that the Amiga had, have been exceeded on modern Mac's and PC's.  Anything else that could be thought of, dreamed of, could be done on the Amiga's audio and video editing hardware and software many years before people could even dream of doing it on a Mac or PC.  I know a full time video editor who still prefers to do some edit jobs on his Video Toaster/Flyer system and says that it can still do some things that his PC system cannot.  Many have said that their Amiga Toaster/Flyer systems were only limited by the users imagination and I believe them, it is not just a marketing line from a advertising tape.

Of course now everything will be switching to High Definition, so it's usefulness will fade away in time.  An OS does not have to be more complex to run complex applications.  I prefer simplicity where the OS is concerned, as long as it is able to run the applications I need to use.  The OS should be as simple, lightweight and transparent to the user as possible.  The power should reside in the applications and hardware to run them.  Give the user the option to choose which features they need and want and install them on top of a minimal, lightning fast OS with only the most basic needed functions.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 08:34:06 AM by amigadave »
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline kolla

Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #100 on: April 12, 2010, 08:49:56 AM »
Quote from: runequester;553096
picking an OS based on the userbase seems sort of weird to me
Which part of "part of" did you not understand? And to be picky, it wasn't about "picking an OS", it was about "picking a distro" - there are plenty out there, hardly any of them are "corporatized".
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 08:53:57 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
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Offline runequester

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #101 on: April 12, 2010, 09:01:29 AM »
Quote from: kolla;553107
Which part of "part of" did you not understand? And to be picky, it wasn't about "picking an OS", it was about "picking a distro" - there are plenty out there, hardly any of them are "corporatized".


Hey mate, grab a beer, relax :)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #102 on: April 12, 2010, 09:22:39 AM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;553068
A modern PC, even a proper laptop (ie DELL XPS 17" range not Intel integrated graphics rubbish btw) is a fantastic bit of kit technically speaking but...

1. Windows is utter crap...is it 25 years worth of computer development in hardware comparable ahead of KS/Wb on the A1000? No!

2. The PC is so fast only because it needed to run ever more bloated and useless OS releases from Microdorks ;)

So you can't have one without the other really.

As the_leander says, I mostly use linux day to day. And it runs very nicely indeed. I recently tried haiku and even with VESA driver support only, flew like the proverbial muck off a shovel.

In the end, who said anything about Windows? In any event, bloated as it is, the proof is in the usage. Last time I booted into Windows, it ran all my games at their highest detail settings, full antialiasing and with all sorts of 3rd party "HD" mods for even larger, more detailed textures etc. at decent frame rates. Since the install isn't full of miscellaneous of crap that so many windows users feel the need to pollute their systems with, even windows itself runs fine.

Considering that's all I ask of windows on that machine, I can't really complain.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 09:27:07 AM by Karlos »
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Offline stefcep2

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #103 on: April 12, 2010, 01:21:26 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;553109
As the_leander says, I mostly use linux day to day. And it runs very nicely indeed. I recently tried haiku and even with VESA driver support only, flew like the proverbial muck off a shovel.

In the end, who said anything about Windows? In any event, bloated as it is, the proof is in the usage. Last time I booted into Windows, it ran all my games at their highest detail settings, full antialiasing and with all sorts of 3rd party "HD" mods for even larger, more detailed textures etc. at decent frame rates. Since the install isn't full of miscellaneous of crap that so many windows users feel the need to pollute their systems with, even windows itself runs fine.

Considering that's all I ask of windows on that machine, I can't really complain.


Thats all simply a function of the lightning fast hardware that even a low end x86 machine has these days.

A simple thing like pulling down a menu in my multi-core, multi Ghz, mult Gb ram Ubuntu system, and the menu contents are drawn more slowly than a 14 mhz 2 meg A1200.  Its "sticks" as i go across the menu bar and the next men u is drawn and populated and the old one erased Move your pointer down the menu bar a little faster, and the selection jumps over the menu items as the OS can't keep up with the pointer.  FFS it just FEELS shit.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: mac and pc sucks!!!!
« Reply #104 from previous page: April 12, 2010, 01:33:00 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;553123
Thats all simply a function of the lightning fast hardware that even a low end x86 machine has these days.

A simple thing like pulling down a menu in my multi-core, multi Ghz, mult Gb ram Ubuntu system, and the menu contents are drawn more slowly than a 14 mhz 2 meg A1200.  Its "sticks" as i go across the menu bar and the next men u is drawn and populated and the old one erased Move your pointer down the menu bar a little faster, and the selection jumps over the menu items as the OS can't keep up with the pointer.  FFS it just FEELS shit.
In that case you need a Mac...



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