Is the Cloud overrated?

[Arkhan]

Do you have anything valid to say? Before the personal computer, what were people doing their computing on? Exactly. In fact, a system like that was still installed at my local library until about 2005. I used it a lot. It beeped when you pressed the enter key, and you could watch the cursor move as the screen redrew.

I just think its hilarious when a 19 year old talks about what was going on in the 70s.  I dont care if your library had one.  So did mine.  Its not nearly enough proof of how things worked in the 70s.  Do you think all computer setups in the 70s beeped alot, and drew text to screen slowly?  Is that all you think they did?

Get back to me when you know what it's like to not have a home computer, and you have to go into a lab, dial into a server (like a VAX), and work that way for hours to get things done.  command line only.  No windows.  
 

Mach/bsd hybrid kernel, named xnu. Try to keep up.

Keep up with what?  You just repeated what I said, while adding your idiotic, arrogant flavor to it.   :roflmao:

And why would using BSD "keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS"? Have you used The old mac os? It's the anti-unix.

My bad, slip an X at the end of that Mac OS.   OSX has been evolving for what, over a decade now?  

Though I guess you could say longer, if you consider Nextstep.

I can download darwin, the open source parts of OSX, put the disc in, and boot to a shell (I think it's bash, not used it in a while). The argument could be made that it's an entire open source operating system.

..you THINK its bash?  All of this wikipedia slinging, and you THINK thats what it is?  Lol. If you want to argue that darwin is an entire OS, go on ahead.  I'll be the guy in the back of the room doing this: :laughing:

Given that I've got NS 3.3 running here in a virtual machine, admiring the total lack of software, I should hope so. It's funny how they developed doom on this, but it's not even complete.

So what, you went on the google-machine and downloaded NS.  Whoopeedoooo.  Do you know what it is?  How its put together?  It closed source.  It stops being LOLOPENSOURCE after the mach/bsd based part.

Just because two cars have the same engine, doesn't make them the same car.

Meaning, lets say you are a dodge charger and im a dodge dart.   We both have 318's in us.

If you (and I stress the IF) become some engine expert with 318s and then walk up to my car, try to pop the hood and go WHAT, ITS THE SAME ENGINE, LET ME GET IN THERE AND DO STUFF.

I will slam the hood down on your face and go ITS CLOSED SOURCE, GO AWAY NOW. :afro:    

You don't seem to aware that NeXTSTEP was also xnu kernal+bsd userland based. The biggest change between that and osx 10.0 was the display system.

You can stop trying to be different and "more informed" now and say mach kernel based like the rest of the world.   If you think the biggest change was the display system, again, this is me: :laughing:.  Why don't you leave comments like that for people who know stuff.

Cry more.

lrn2forum.

[Hell Labs]

I just think its hilarious when a 19 year old talks about what was going on in the 70s.  I dont care if your library had one.  So did mine.  Its not nearly enough proof of how things worked in the 70s.  Do you think all computer setups in the 70s beeped alot, and drew text to screen slowly?  Is that all you think they did?

No, some of them printed text out on paper slowly instead.

Get back to me when you know what it's like to not have a home computer, and you have to go into a lab, dial into a server (like a VAX), and work that way for hours to get things done.  command line only.  No windows.  

 
I pretty clearly have command line experiance, what with me already having mentioned using st.helens' council 1985 Amdahl (I checked, the entire town was run on it, not just our libraries). That was the only system outside of school I could use untill I got a PC in 2004. The school computers untill 2005 were also BBC Micro model Bs, when we were given hand-me-down dells with NT4. (The BBCs are currently in the tech's shed at home. I never got around to asking for one off him). So, if I was using a computer out of school, it was z/os for me. They had it set up with a menu for word processing, checking what books were in, and a third option for local goverment (council) use that needed a password. At any rate I first used a GUI in about 2003, if the playstation mouse counts.

..you THINK its bash?  All of this wikipedia slinging, and you THINK thats what it is?  Lol. If you want to argue that darwin is an entire OS, go on ahead.  I'll be the guy in the back of the room doing this: :laughing:

I think that's what it is, but i'm not sure. I've not used it in a while (no need). No wikipedia usage at any point in this argument; but given that you're accusing me of this, I'm guessing you're guilty?

So what, you went on the google-machine and downloaded NS.  Whoopeedoooo.  Do you know what it is?  How its put together?  It closed source.  It stops being LOLOPENSOURCE after the mach/bsd based part.

No, I went to the ebay machine and bought a nextstep 3.3 386/68k install disc. Took a while to buff away the scratches.

Just because two cars have the same engine, doesn't make them the same car.

No, but it does make them easier to find parts on, and doesn't take as long to get used to working on the other.

Meaning, lets say you are a dodge charger and im a dodge dart.   We both have 318's in us.

If you (and I stress the IF) become some engine expert with 318s and then walk up to my car, try to pop the hood and go WHAT, ITS THE SAME ENGINE, LET ME GET IN THERE AND DO STUFF.

So, were cars, not people. Then suddenly we become people who own cars? Not following you.

I will slam the hood down on your face and go ITS CLOSED SOURCE, GO AWAY NOW. :afro:    

Drunken analogies: Bad idea.

You can stop trying to be different and "more informed" now and say mach kernel based like the rest of the world.   If you think the biggest change was the display system, again, I am Mr.Hands.

.  

The kernel is XNU. Forked from Mach, uses a lot of BSD code in there. They are not the same.

Why don't you leave comments like that for people who know stuff.

Well I do, and you don't.

lrn2forum.

gb2gbs

[the_leander]

Why would i pay to store my data when i can buy 1 TB for under $100,

And what happens if for instance, you're flooded out, or your gear stolen?

Multiple backups in multiple locations are a good thing.

[the_leander]

No, some of them printed text out on paper slowly instead.


I think that's what it is, but i'm not sure. I've not used it in a while (no need). No wikipedia usage at any point in this argument; but given that you're accusing me of this, I'm guessing you're guilty?

You know what they say about making assumptions.

The kernel is XNU. Forked from Mach, uses a lot of BSD code in there. They are not the same.

I'm pretty certain he has stated that not once, but twice.

To me this just comes off as you playing a game of semantics to try to score points.

Well I do, and you don't.

Again, to everyone here reading this thread, it's clear this fella knows his stuff, that's not to say you don't.

Actually this whole thing just comes off like a clash of personalities.

I mean sure, its funny as hell watching you two rip on each other. But I don't think either one of you has enough of an advantage over the other to get anything other then a pyrrhic victory out of this.

gb2gbs

No U.

See, I can do memes as well!

(MODERATED: Image removed per user complaint.)

[Hell Labs]

I'd be more impressed if you knew what the "gbs" part was, and why it's significant.

[Arkhan]

I pretty clearly have command line experiance, what with me already having mentioned using st.helens' c......BLAHBLAHBLAH...or local goverment (council) use that needed a password. At any rate I first used a GUI in about 2003, if the playstation mouse counts.

Youre 19. most of your early computer use experience is pretty useless and of no real consequence.

I think that's what it is, but i'm not sure. I've not used it in a while (no need). No wikipedia usage at any point in this argument; but given that you're accusing me of this, I'm guessing you're guilty?

Oh, Mr. KnowItAll McUsedOldSystemsInHisYouthAndIsOfficiallyTheTerminalMasterBecauseOfIt cant remember something like BASH? I Just find that fact quoting people usually just wikipedia everything and start flinging facts around like it makes their credibility 100%.

No, I went to the ebay machine and bought a nextstep 3.3 386/68k install disc. Took a while to buff away the scratches.

Oh look at me I buffed a disc.  I'm the sovereign lord of the computarz. :lol:  Any more irrelevant bits of info that you think separate you from the pack!?  LOOK OUT WORLD, HellLabs buffed out a CD-ROM!  HES UNLEASHED THE TRUE POWER.

No, but it does make them easier to find parts on, and doesn't take as long to get used to working on the other.

So, were cars, not people. Then suddenly we become people who own cars? Not following you.

Drunken analogies: Bad idea.

It helps to read the entire analogy before responding, instead of breaking it into sections and commenting on them.  again: LRN2FORUM.   Let me dumb it down for you, sport:  Just because 2 things use the same core and one is open sourced, doesn't mean they both are.  The freedom of one doesnt always translate 1:1 to the other.  OSX has plenty of non open source (>50%) stuff, which really makes it what it is.  That is the root of the discussion.  You claiming over half the OS is open sauce.  Its not.  Its very closed sauce.  omfgbbq1337sauce to be exact.

The kernel is XNU. Forked from Mach, uses a lot of BSD code in there. They are not the same.

You see that word BASED, that has been used a few times now?   That implies they're not the same but are related.  Again, thanks for the redundancy.  It appears were all on the same page, yet you think youre a page ahead of us.

Well I do, and you don't.

Please.  You'd be wise to not even bother going there. That kind of stupidity never ends well.

gb2gbs

funny, thats what I was sayin' when you started waving your tard-fu around in my monitor thread, and probably what people are saying about you in this thread about CLOUD .   It wasn't an open invitation for your know it all penis waving

[Gulliver]

Sorry boys for being off topic, but going back to this thing of cloud computing I just wanted to say that I believe it is a marketing buzzword for yuppies that want to sell some new technology trend, which is of course usefull, but overrated, much like the multimedia concept was in the 90s, much like web 2.0 was sometine ago much like the dot com crazyness.
And this technological marketing trends will keep coming and going from time to time, promising they will revolutionize everything, and then they will dissapear much like a pop song. Leaving us, in the best of cases, with something usefull, but not really groundbreaking.

[DavidF215]

Cloud computing has its uses. I would not use another Company's hosting for business information but rather host the data on my own Company's servers accessible via a VPN.

I prefer to either have a physical product (CD/DVD) or a file on my local computer accessible at any time with or without an Internet connection; the option to download the product again is convenient, but I want the entire program locally without fees or the need for an Internet connection.

Regarding movies, the option like NetFlix is fine for movie rental, but if I want to own the entire movie, I'll buy a physical copy; there's no way I'm wasting my time or bandwidth waiting for a 8GB+ file to download when I can go to my local store to buy a professionally burned DVD/BlueRay.

Cloud computing is simply mainframe systems, thin clients, Citrix, and the likes of Outlook Web Access repackaged with Digital Distribution added to the mix. Accessibility is great for businesses as they get more revenue from monthly fees, but, as with any other product or service, buyer beware.

[DonnyEMU]

To Hell Labs: Lay off the wikipedia I hate to agree because I was there for most of it, my first main frame when I was in seventh grade I ever touched was an IBM 360, got to use a VAX CLUSTER in college. I did my programming for that most of the time on a VT100 terminal in a college basement and at home using my Amiga 2000HD with VLT emulator...

After college I ended up doing work on projects for Disney CDROMs, on Macs and Windows PCs of the era. I had them all connected to a series of Windows NT 3.51 servers and the company bought a sparcstation and had about 25 Next Cubes (the old 68030 types) and about 10-15 next stations (68040s) and a few "white" box x86 NeXT Pizza box type machines with pure intel hardware.. I remember the company installing openstep and saying "YUCK" and deciding to depart for a completely windows environment at the time..

Since then I do work on Expression Studio, mainly Expression Blend and I do cloud apps as well using Windows Azure.. Microsoft doesn't really need to sell the cloud to anyone but developers because it's a developer technology. You as a consumer or business would use the cloud on a pc, and phone or even a tablet and not even know that you were doing so..

Is it overhyped ?? I don't think so.. Does it mean local storage won't be needed, EXTREMELY DOUBTFUL.. On my iphone one of my favorite apps is a wifi hard drive.. I just can use the drive in the device over my wifi connection..

Is Microsoft selling the cloud to developers?  Sure do think they are..

http://www.azurebootcamp.com/

How many people use the cloud right now??

Ever use google docs?

Every use backupify to backup your social media accounts?

Ever use Microsoft office web apps (I do on my free 20 gig skydrive)..

http://news.office-watch.com/t/n.aspx?a=1318

Have I ever lost anything? No

Might I? maybe, but I like redundancy..

Remember the ipad and iphone are devices not full PCs not running full Mac OS..

This is the whole notion of charging for software as a service not having to license it or own it..

I am developing a Windows Phone 7 app in Silverlight right now that runs on Macs, full PCs with Windows, Linux boxes and Windows Phones (series 7) that uses the cloud and it makes thing much much easier.. I am also using OData (Open Data protocol)..

I think the cloud is a big part of our future, but like anything else it could be used in a bad way..

[Arkhan]

Sorry boys for being off topic, but going back to this thing of cloud computing I just wanted to say that I believe it is a marketing buzzword for yuppies that want to sell some new technology trend, which is of course usefull, but overrated, much like the multimedia concept was in the 90s, much like web 2.0 was sometine ago much like the dot com crazyness.
And this technological marketing trends will keep coming and going from time to time, promising they will revolutionize everything, and then they will dissapear much like a pop song. Leaving us, in the best of cases, with something usefull, but not really groundbreaking.

this reminds me of someone who wouldn't shut up about Azure and silverlight (not you Donny!).  Acting like it was THE MESSIAH of computing.  Its neat, but we were OK without it, and will be fine after its hype has passed.

some people will benefit,and use it to its full, designed-for potential, but none of this stuff is going to be a widespread phenomenon

[takemehomegrandma]

Is the Cloud overrated?

I think not.

OK, there is little point in trying to apply the "pre cloud" applications and products into a cloud context. Isn't that what has been happening up until now? Not exactly ideal.

But there are new kinds of applications that is built for "the cloud" from the start, and then it suddenly makes more sense. Google Wave is a new tool with great potential for communication, collaboration, document authoring, etc. Very simple to use, yet extremely powerful, and its usefulness will only grow thanks to its third party API. Why struggle in keeping a local storage of MP3's, copy them between various devices, etc, when it's enough to have a play-list at Spotify? The same with movies, use Voddler!

So yes, with the new kind of applications that are coming now and in the future, "the cloud" will come natural and not something you as a consumer will even reflect upon.

[Hell Labs]

Youre 19. most of your early computer use experience is pretty useless and of no real consequence.

You're posting this on a forum where people play with old computers. Think for a second here. Is ECS curing cancer?

Oh, Mr. KnowItAll McUsedOldSystemsInHisYouthAndIsOfficiallyTheTerminalMasterBecauseOfIt cant remember something like BASH? I Just find that fact quoting people usually just wikipedia everything and start flinging facts around like it makes their credibility 100%.

What's your point? I've used bash before, a while ago. Not exactly bragging here, just a statement of facts.

Oh look at me I buffed a disc.  I'm the sovereign lord of the computarz. :lol:  Any more irrelevant bits of info that you think separate you from the pack!?  LOOK OUT WORLD, HellLabs buffed out a CD-ROM!  HES UNLEASHED THE TRUE POWER.

Okay, you don't have a point.

It helps to read the entire analogy before responding, instead of breaking it into sections and commenting on them.

Well, your analogy was completely broken. first, "we are cars", then we start opeing bonnets of cars we own? What the **** happened in your english class?

again: I'm sorry Jesus *pumps dick*

Let me dumb it down for you, sport:  Just because 2 things use the same core and one is open sourced, doesn't mean they both are.  The freedom of one doesnt always translate 1:1 to the other.  OSX has plenty of non open source (>50%) stuff, which really makes it what it is.  That is the root of the discussion.  You claiming over half the OS is open sauce.  Its not.  Its very closed sauce.  omfgbbq1337sauce to be exact.

You see that word BASED, that has been used a few times now?   That implies they're not the same but are related.  Again, thanks for the redundancy.  It appears were all on the same page, yet you think youre a page ahead of us.

Well use the right name then.

Please.  You'd be wise to not even bother going there. That kind of stupidity never ends well.

If your handlers were smart, you'd have no keyboard.

funny, thats what I was sayin' when you started waving your tard-fu around in my monitor thread, and probably what people are saying about you in this thread about CLOUD .   It wasn't an open invitation for your know it all penis waving

Haha, you're still butthurt about me asking a question about a monitor, in a thread about that monitor?.

[persia]

The point of the cloud is that nobody has just one computer any more.  {ep[;e have a main laptop or desktop, a mobile phone, a tablet and/or netbook, perhaps another portable device, a work computer, plus there are just times that you need to use someone else's computer.  Keeping all those in sync is difficult and not really necessary.  Do I want all my work documents on my mobile phone?  No.  Do I want to be able to access certain ones at certain times?  Absolutely.  Do I know what those certain ones are?  No, not really.

So here we are, the cloud has privacy implications but in the end it may be the only real solution for the growing presence of computers in our lives.

[BigBenAussie]

We stand on the precipice of major change.

Cloud based applications will eventually decouple applications from any particular operating system and nullify OS lock-in. It is easy to debunk the utility of cloud based applications as we base it on a model that is only apparent today, failing to see it evolve out of necessity to address consumer concerns regarding privacy and ownership. As soon as one vendor solves this problem others will follow to remain competitive (and for the most part it has already been solved).

I believe the future of the cloud, for businesses and the consumer, is in hybrid applications, that are both native and available over the web, that store data locally as well as synchronise when on-line, with strong encryption and security and practically unlimited online storage(for a price).

Do not make the mistake of imagining that access and bandwidth in the future will be as limited as it is today. Bandwidth is increasing exponentially, and the amount of data points, at a minimum, around major cities will increase. You may lament you have limited access or speed right now, but this is unlikely to be the case in 10 years time. Today's cable and ADSL connections will feel like 56k baud modems popular in the 90s.

Google, AND MANY OTHERS, have developed and released technology that addresses most of your concerns. Many companies already aim to provide native compilation of apps and offline databases as well as browser based graphics acceleration. I've personally written apps using my own hybrid technology that run locally as well as on the web.

I believe app stores and vendor lock-in are a different matter entirely to cloud computing.

But let me take my view of the future much further. With web applications becoming increasingly ubiquitous, we will find many new Web based desktops taking advantage of native code compilation and graphics acceleration. These will relegate the OS to a layer that merely runs applications launched by URLs that in turn open browser based windows. To all intents and purposes web desktops/Window managers, customised to your own usage, will appear to perform as efficiently as regular desktops do today, on any system anywhere you are in the world. The era of the native desktop as a necessity or differentiating factor may end some time in this decade.

The major driver for Cloud computing is business and their desire to provide SaaS(Software As A Service) so they can pick up regular licensing fees and curb piracy. Personally, I see nothing wrong with this model which continues to keep the IT industry afloat, not to mention keep me and many, many developers in a job.

[tone007]

Try free Cloud computing! (geared towards netbooks) http://jolicloud.com

[Thorham]

I have no private interest in cloud computing what so ever, because I want to run everything natively and I want all my data to be stored locally. I truly dislike the idea of being dependent an the internet for using my computer, and as a consequence, I'm staying away from this for as long as possible.

That said, it certainly has it's uses, but on a personal level I'm not interested.