Is the Cloud overrated?

[Iggy]

Your best man (and maybe his accountant) is a dream-come-true for the harvesters pushing cloud computing.  My paranoid 2 cents.

Yeah, you're paranoid (but so are a lot of other people , so that hardly concerns me).
The point you're missing is that there are valid applications that when shared over the internet save time and simply real work. I wouldn't expect many of you to understand, as its not real likely that any of you have finances complicated enough to warrant hiring an accountant.
Have any of you thought that a forum dedicated to a long dead computer system, that supports a community that barely has functional browsers might not be the place to look for the most valid opinions related to new ideas in computing?

[KThunder]

btw pc game market has lost. it is almost totally stagnant. the console market has exploded in the last 5 years or so and the pc game market has lost ground. Get almost any game mag (i subscribe to game informer) and you will see at least 5 games for each console to every single pc game. advertising for pc games is almost nonexistant.

it always has been the higher priced niche but it was also always a much large niche. i think the problem started when graphics card makers wanted to release a new card every 6-8 months. noone wants that. console makers are shooting for a 7-10 year lifespan for their systems. that is much more in line with reality for most people.  2 grand every year for a new gaming pc or 400 for a console, not a tough call.
game publishers have also stepped away from mainstream computing. at least 50% of all pcs today regardless of all other things have integrated graphics chipset or older graphics card not a top of the line ati or nvidia card.

[KThunder]

Have any of you thought that a forum dedicated to a long dead computer system, that supports a community that barely has functional browsers might not be the place to look for the most valid opinions related to new ideas in computing?

i cant speak for anyone else but i am up on most of the new technologies that are out. i see the value of good efficient software and hardware, and i use computers everyday for study as i am a full time student with half my classes online. i use cloud computing system literally every day and i do see value in them for specific applications definitely not for everything though.

i dont think any of us is exclusively using any long dead computer system. i do use aros which is not long or dead. do you use amigas?

[Iggy]

I'm glad to see at least one reasonable post. And I do apologize for needling everybody to get to this point.

Yes, I too use other computers, but I have one system set up with AROS (and that Amiga like system is really beginning to impress me). I also have put together a Powermac system with the hope of running MorphOS on it when the next revision is released. As to a 'real' Amiga. I'm not about to pay the insane sums currently demanded for these to get back to running old software dead slow. AROS (with integrated UAE) or straight emulation is close enough for me.

And I don't use true Cloud computing apps to any extent, but I do see the validity of the concept for SOME uses.

And for now, Amiga and Amiga like systems may be a relatively dead issue, but they have to be the most interesting developments in retro computing.

I just got tired of everyone dumping on the cloud concept.
While a lot of the focus may just be companies looking for new ways to generate revenue, there is a legitimate place for this technology.

[Arkhan]

What we had in the 70s, was a system where everything was done on one machine, and piped out to the end users. This is incedibly slow and laggy, and prone to failure. It is easy to restrict, fragile, ineficient, and at there mercy of whoever was in charge.

You're 19.  You didn't have jack in the 70s. You weren't even a twinkle in your dads eye.  You don't even know what you're talking about.  I think YOU should drown yourself.  Or at least stay off of Wikipedia.

Over half of their operating system is open sourced. The commerical product itself, OSX, doesn't have any kind of licencing scheme or copy protection whatsoever..

No, its not half open source.  Its based on the MACH kernel, which is indeed open source as it's part of MINIX.  Parts of BSD were mixed in to keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS and maintain BSD-friendliness.  This is not over half of the OS.  

Yes there are PARTS which are open source (the stuff that is BSD friendly, mostly) as that goes with the Unix territory, but saying over half the OS is open source is plain dense.  

The rest of it is filled with Nextstep.  Do you know what that is?  I doubt it.  Because if you did, you wouldn't be spewing your nonsense.

PS: That was for hijacking my thread on 1084s, AND for being numb.

ANYWAY

Cloud sounds a lot like a modern day, ubered up successor to PLATO or something.  I think it will be a great setup for businesses, and people who travel often (business folk).

Businesses often lock out most of the computer to the user (employee) and most of the stuff that needs accesses is on some intranet anyway.  They're basically dumbing a PC down into a terminal already in a lot of business/work places.

and people who travel A LOT can definitely benefit from having their stuff accessible from wherever they are, provided they have an internet connection.

It will be less expensive, easier to maintain, etc...

So, in that regard, I think its a neat idea, and might play out into something nice.  It could give businesses a lot more flexibility.   It might also crash and burn into a huge unsecured mess

However, the home user....especially the power users like those of us who constantly upgrade hardware, have tons of hard drives, RAID setups, home networks w/ file servers, etc. etc. etc.  will not benefit from cloud.   It will be a giant pain in the ass for people like that.   We (power users) were fine without it, and wont need it.  It is not practical for us, and probably wasn't designed with us in mind.  Just like the intranets w/ PCs that have locked out features in the workplace weren't designed with us in mind either.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Sorry.. What is Cloud ?

It mostly means productivity software is not installed on your computer. Instead you rent it from some place like Google an access it with an internet connection.
If you were a business your big database would not be in the building, it would hosted by another company.

[koaftder]

@Arkhan

Spank that ass.

[Tenacious]

Yeah, you're paranoid (but so are a lot of other people , so that hardly concerns me).
The point you're missing is that there are valid applications that when shared over the internet save time and simply real work. I wouldn't expect many of you to understand, as its not real likely that any of you have finances complicated enough to warrant hiring an accountant.
Have any of you thought that a forum dedicated to a long dead computer system, that supports a community that barely has functional browsers might not be the place to look for the most valid opinions related to new ideas in computing?

Sorry Iggy, I wasn't trying to be personal.

The cloud will have some legitimate uses.   I believe marketing, fashion, hyperbole, and bad intentions will  pervert it into a bad direction for many ppl.

So, in addition to paranoia, I'm a bit jaded, too.

I suppose there could be such a thing as an invalid opinion. Not mine though, grin.

[the_leander]

Cloud computing from a business perspective makes sense in some cases.

Even from a home user there maybe applications for it (offsite backups, for instance).

That said, I would never, ever trust it, recently on slashdot there was a story about how games using the steam content management system going down - the result was a good many people suddenly couldn't access their own games as they wouldn't start if they can't phone home.

Now imagine that instead of it being a game, it's your documents, basic applications etc.

It also means that you're absolutely dependant on having a net connection present at all times. No deal for me given that I'm on a HSDPA connection, but even on a fixed line I'd be hesitent.

Having offsite backup is great, having multiple backups is better. But having the whole system hanging off of it? No thanks.

I have in the past used what might be considered a "cloud" application, or at least one tied to the cloud - a piece of software called Celtx, which I used for helping in the development of a comic (which was eventually scrapped as it happens) between myself and a couple of others. In this role it worked well. But the application itself was one that you installed on the local drive and could be used standalone as well as online. For colaborative works, the cloud makes a little more sense.

[koaftder]

It's one thing to trust a company to take care of your needs for a price, it's another to have no choice but to get by paying companies just to use your machine. Pay attention to this distinction. Cut a line in the sand. You own your machine and the shit thats on it, for now.

[the_leander]

It's one thing to trust a company to take care of your needs for a price, it's another to have no choice but to get by paying companies just to use your machine. Pay attention to this distinction. Cut a line in the sand. You own your machine and the shit thats on it, for now.

/thread

[stefcep2]

Why would i pay to store my data when i can buy 1 TB for under $100, and dropping. What will it cost me, and how long will it take for me to upload and download this?  why should I accept a performance hit when for $400 PC I can  access this instantly from hard drive?  why would i pay for apps when I can get for the same functions for free?  And if i'm the type that needs to access my data, i'll buy a $300 netbook shove a 500 gig har drive and physically carry the damn thing with me and use my wireless broadband to upload and download.

[dammy]

Yeah, but when Skynet becomes self-aware we will all be screwed.

Only if you can get Skynet to stop looking at all the pr0n.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Have any of you thought that a forum dedicated to a long dead computer system, that supports a community that barely has functional browsers might not be the place to look for the most valid opinions related to new ideas in computing?

Amiga was once at the leading edge of computing, why wouldn't I want to know what true enthusiasts think of a new concept? Low spec and lean machines are a good candidate for cloud computing. It's one thing that you could progress, but is anyone going to do anything useful with it?

[Hell Labs]

You're 19.  You didn't have jack in the 70s. You weren't even a twinkle in your dads eye.  You don't even know what you're talking about.  I think YOU should drown yourself.  Or at least stay off of Wikipedia.

Do you have anything valid to say? Before the personal computer, what were people doing their computing on? Exactly. In fact, a system like that was still installed at my local library until about 2005. I used it a lot. It beeped when you pressed the enter key, and you could watch the cursor move as the screen redrew.

No, its not half open source.  Its based on the MACH kernel, which is indeed open source as it's part of MINIX.  Parts of BSD were mixed in to keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS and maintain BSD-friendliness.  This is not over half of the OS.  

Mach/bsd hybrid kernel, named xnu. Try to keep up. And why would using BSD "keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS"? Have you used The old mac os? It's the anti-unix.

Yes there are PARTS which are open source (the stuff that is BSD friendly, mostly) as that goes with the Unix territory, but saying over half the OS is open source is plain dense.  

I can download darwin, the open source parts of OSX, put the disc in, and boot to a shell (I think it's bash, not used it in a while). The argument could be made that it's an entire open source operating system.

The rest of it is filled with Nextstep.  Do you know what that is?  I doubt it.  Because if you did, you wouldn't be spewing your nonsense.

Given that I've got NS 3.3 running here in a virtual machine, admiring the total lack of software, I should hope so. It's funny how they developed doom on this, but it's not even complete.

You don't seem to aware that NeXTSTEP was also xnu kernal+bsd userland based. The biggest change between that and osx 10.0 was the display system.

PS: That was for hijacking my thread on 1084s, AND for being numb.

Cry more.

No copy protection, but there most definitely is  licensing.

Sure, it's easy to install it on ten machines, doesn't mean you're  allowed to though.

Not enforced.

Look up Windows Azure, hint, it's cloud computing  by Microsoft, and apparently businesses are buying it.

At least check some facts before you post, otherwise you're typing all  that garbage for nothing.

They're not pushing it. Microsoft right now are actually advertising  windows, so I guess the reinforces the idea that they don't really care  about it. The fact microsoft has to advertise is kind of weird though.  Are they scared or something?

[Arkhan]

Do you have anything valid to say? Before the personal computer, what were people doing their computing on? Exactly. In fact, a system like that was still installed at my local library until about 2005. I used it a lot. It beeped when you pressed the enter key, and you could watch the cursor move as the screen redrew.

I just think its hilarious when a 19 year old talks about what was going on in the 70s.  I dont care if your library had one.  So did mine.  Its not nearly enough proof of how things worked in the 70s.  Do you think all computer setups in the 70s beeped alot, and drew text to screen slowly?  Is that all you think they did?

Get back to me when you know what it's like to not have a home computer, and you have to go into a lab, dial into a server (like a VAX), and work that way for hours to get things done.  command line only.  No windows.  
 

Mach/bsd hybrid kernel, named xnu. Try to keep up.

Keep up with what?  You just repeated what I said, while adding your idiotic, arrogant flavor to it.   :roflmao:

And why would using BSD "keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS"? Have you used The old mac os? It's the anti-unix.

My bad, slip an X at the end of that Mac OS.   OSX has been evolving for what, over a decade now?  

Though I guess you could say longer, if you consider Nextstep.

I can download darwin, the open source parts of OSX, put the disc in, and boot to a shell (I think it's bash, not used it in a while). The argument could be made that it's an entire open source operating system.

..you THINK its bash?  All of this wikipedia slinging, and you THINK thats what it is?  Lol. If you want to argue that darwin is an entire OS, go on ahead.  I'll be the guy in the back of the room doing this: :laughing:

Given that I've got NS 3.3 running here in a virtual machine, admiring the total lack of software, I should hope so. It's funny how they developed doom on this, but it's not even complete.

So what, you went on the google-machine and downloaded NS.  Whoopeedoooo.  Do you know what it is?  How its put together?  It closed source.  It stops being LOLOPENSOURCE after the mach/bsd based part.

Just because two cars have the same engine, doesn't make them the same car.

Meaning, lets say you are a dodge charger and im a dodge dart.   We both have 318's in us.

If you (and I stress the IF) become some engine expert with 318s and then walk up to my car, try to pop the hood and go WHAT, ITS THE SAME ENGINE, LET ME GET IN THERE AND DO STUFF.

I will slam the hood down on your face and go ITS CLOSED SOURCE, GO AWAY NOW. :afro:    

You don't seem to aware that NeXTSTEP was also xnu kernal+bsd userland based. The biggest change between that and osx 10.0 was the display system.

You can stop trying to be different and "more informed" now and say mach kernel based like the rest of the world.   If you think the biggest change was the display system, again, this is me: :laughing:.  Why don't you leave comments like that for people who know stuff.

Cry more.

lrn2forum.