How would you have designed AGA Amigas?

[Hell Labs]

More like how i'd have done commodore:

Stop developing 8-bit computers after the c64, but give it a ram slot and sell models with higher ram. Make a constant effort to miniturize the design.

Released the 500 and 2000 in 1985.

Make a C64 compatability card for amiga.

Clone the 68K archetecture. MOS tech is right there, so use it guys. motorola aren't doing anything special.

Put a ton of funding into developing a new chipset for release in 1990. chipset should be capble of chunky, and have atleast a simple 3D accelerator that could do texture mapping. Think "almost playstation", like ocs was "almost megadrive". Monitor drivers that include 800x600 and 1024x768 are needed too.

Develop the hell out of the OS.

skip 500+, 600, cdtv, and those stupid commodore PCs. Release the 1200 and 4000 in 1990 CPU should be socketed and a range of speeds avalible. use HD floppys in the 1200.

behold, a non bankrupt commodore.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Nice answers, seem like logical steps.
     I think Commodore was overly concerned with price. They definitely skimped. That's in complete opposition to how consoles are made nowadays where features are the prime focus.
     
     Nobody mentioned PC compatibility except for HD FDD. When Shapeshifter came out we would have had all bases covered. Unfortunately no new hardware except for expansions by that time.

[KThunder]

i agree with others that aga should have had chunky modes. i think i'd go further and say it should have been on a card. the 4000 should not have had graphics on the mobo. the 1200 yes but not the high end machine. other computer companies were doing that so the trend was there.
an aga card with chunky modes that could disable the ecs on a 3000, provide all graphics for a 4000 and dare i say it even been released for pci, could have given the system more flexibility had commodore lived to release a 5000.
of course 3rd party card makers would have suffered unless they integrated an aga chip into their design or emulated it.

also they could have upgraded paula somehow. as amazing as amiga audio is by '92 pcs had mostly caught up.

[save2600]

In all honesty, the Atari Falcon was basically what the Amiga A1200 should have been. Had the A1200 been build to those specs, it would have been the bare minimum to survive... Commodore would have clung on much longer...

A agree big time. A1200 should have had an 030 at least. We're talking about a machine that practically needed to be upgraded right out of the box. Too weak too late. 31khz output should have been standard by then (ever since the A3000 actually) as well as the floppy drives being HD.

PCMCIA was a bad idea too. WTF... 16-bit bus on a 32-bit system? 4mb limit and the cardbus reset problems never should have happened either. Ditch PCMCIA and put an external IDE or SCSI connector on the side instead of the PCMCIA port.

I would have redesigned the A4000's case and made it larger. Scratch that - desktop cases were on the outs by then. Perfect solution was to only have a towerized model from the start and include all the things that should have gone in with it (it's a frickin' multi-media computer after all, right?) like a CD-ROM drive and include the software to make it CD32 compatible. Things such as CD-ROM drives should never had been an "option". The modular design of its CPU AND Zorro Daughtercards were expensive ideas too (DUH!). IF they would have designed the A4000's mobo to be singular, with an 040 chip surface mounted and the Zorro slots inline like on an A2000 - the machine's cost could have been kept to a minimum. Still have the CPU card bus of course for those that want to expand later - but the 3640 was a terrible product and idea right off the bat (backwards caps? Idiots!).

Someone else mentioned a while back that Commodore should have paid more attention to networking and I agree. While solutions may have been around, networking was kind of hush-hush in the Amiga community. I never saw a lot of software or cards for that matter touting that very basic of computing features.

Paula should have been upgraded to 16-bit by the A3000 on and whatever chip to replace her could have been made to be backwards compatible. Would have been a triple treat if the grungy 8-bit sounds were all "promoted" to smooth 16-bit. Talk about reviving old software!

CD32 is pretty well designed (besides Paula) as-is IMO, but should have been directly plug-in compatible with the A1200.

A600 should have never happened, but since it did - should have come with at least a 14mhz 68000 CPU (AdSpeed type product, or an 020), 2MB RAM, HD floppy drive and a TON of games packed in. Again, ditch PCMCIA and slap a CD32/SCSI/IDE friendly connector to the side of her. Keep the 15khz output and tout that as your low-end legacy A500/C64 type of gaming computer.

I believe if all of these concepts were implemented, would have allowed Commodore to better position themselves as a serious computing contender in the long run.

[tone007]

Clone the 68K archetecture. MOS tech is right there, so use it guys. motorola aren't doing anything special.

...

behold, a non bankrupt commodore.

Actually, that one step would've been a bad idea and might have ruined them, as MOS learned earlier after being sued by Motorola for making a CPU pin-compatible (not even a clone!) with the 6800.

[Hell Labs]

There was already a precident for cloning cpus by then, AMD 8088/86 clones were already in the IBM PC, hell IBM used whichever was available for the next shipment. Not to mention, they wouldn't be selling it to outside companies, bar ones making licenced amiga clones (something that should have happened, provided they were identical to commodore machines), and would probably take development down a different path entirely.

[KThunder]

@hell labs
actually the 8088 and 8086 weren't cloned. amd was a second-source for intel. ibm agreed to use the 8088 only on the condition that intel get a second source. it wasnt till the 486 that amd truly cloned the 486 since the lawsuit over intel 386 microcode wasnt settled.
motorola had second-sources but only true clones of the 68000. noone cloned the 020 and up cpus.

the problem with mostec using pin compatibility with the 6800 was that they claimed it and put it right in the docs and adverts for their chips.

[Hell Labs]

Ah I see.

But 8080/ Z80, right? That counts. Infact i'd say the Z80 was even more blatant because they gave away the design for free. Probably the worlds first recorded instance of Pirate copied hardware outside the soviet union.

[KThunder]

i think the best thing atari and commodore should have done was work together. commodore should have made the high-end machines and atari the low-end and game machines. there was way too much animosity between them for that though.

[KThunder]

Ah I see.

But 8080/ Z80, right? That counts. Infact i'd say the Z80 was even more blatant because they gave away the design for free. Probably the worlds fist recorded instance of Pirate copied hardware outside the soviet union.

yeah 8080 and z80 counts. that a clone and upgrade in one. the z80 was way better, and not really a clone

the z80 is just a better chip single power voltage more and better instructions, double the registers for quicker interrupt response. kindof like if amd came out with a core 5 cpu today

[save2600]

i think the best thing atari and commodore should have done was work together. commodore should have made the high-end machines and atari the low-end and game machines. there was way too much animosity between them for that though.

No kidding! To this day, I'm still stunned Tramiel left and sided with Atari!? What a goofy decision. I really don't understand it at all. Brought C= up in the 60's with typewriters and calculators, produced so many great computers and then by the time the Amiga comes around, he jumps ship and swims over to the enemy? Guess I need to read that new-ish Commodore book here soon.  lol

[Hell Labs]

yeah 8080 and z80 counts. that a clone and upgrade in one. the z80 was way better, and not really a clone

the z80 is just a better chip single power voltage more and better instructions, double the registers for quicker interrupt response. kindof like if amd came out with a core 5 cpu today

yeah, but it was still compatable. I think commodore cranking out the 68k equivalent to the z80 would make sense.

[KThunder]

yeah, but it was still compatable. I think commodore cranking out the 68k equivalent to the z80 would make sense.

by the time aga came around mostecs chip fab was still in the 80's they had to outsource aga (denise?) because they couldnt make it. they could produce 16bit cpus if they tried as well as ocs, ecs, dumb frame buffers, and memory controllers but anything else was beyond their capabilities.

the vertical-integration of chip-fab and computer manufacturer was good in the 80's but commodore held mostec back. by 85 they should have had a 16-bit 6502 by 90 a 32bit etc. instead for years they spit out varients of the 6501, 6502, 6510, 8510 etc. etc.

[KThunder]

actually by 85 they should have been able to make the 68000 themselves

oh wait maybe that is what you mean. ok i agree

[Hell Labs]

actually by 85 they should have been able to make the 68000 themselves

oh wait maybe that is what you mean. ok i agree

Yeah, mos tech could have been commodores greatest strength if they'd have looked after it properly.

so outdated factories they had to outsource the chipset? goddamn commodore , every time I learn more about how they operated, they seem even more STUPID.

[KThunder]

yeah they were loving up on the cash cow c64 and letting the techs do something or other with the amiga. no focus no plan for the future.