Top 3 worst ideas in Amiga history?

[save2600]

Does anybody else wonder if Atari would have done better with the Amiga technology?

Nope. They would have done exactly the same thing ultimately - just as they did with their ST line. I'd go so far as saying that Atari's brand name was already tainted to the point that hardly anybody at the time would have taken them seriously. Atari is Atari and that means console gaming and maybe their A8 line - but soon after the 2nd and 3rd generation 8-bit computer line (which were really all the same machines basically), they had already burned so many bridges with retailers that yes - they would have not stood a chance marketing anything as innovative as the Amiga. And when you look back at the ST days, C= did a much better job with the scant advertising and marketing than Atari ever did with any of their products at the time.

IMO - As only Nixon could have gone to China, only Commodore could have handled the Amiga.

[quarkx]

I agree somewhat, but you have to look at the big picture. IF Jack had not left Commodore, the Amiga would have gone to Atari. At that time, Atari was bleed money for Time-Warner, so even if they managed to get the 150XE out the door (I think that was the offical name for MICKEY), Atari soon would have folded up after that. POSSIBLY, Jack would have swooped in and bought it up, if he could have gotten it for JACK's terms, but, then the damage would have been done, and possibly, the Amiga technology would have died, or have been used in other ways. Now, CBM on the other hand (If Jack had stayed) would have bought Zlog, and have pushed the C900 out the door for a UNIX machine. It's really hard to say if the C900 would have carried Commodore into the '90's, but the big problem was Jack's lack of the future. He wanted Immediate results, and if it was selling good, then it will keep on selling. As a result, Commodore and MOS had no 16 bit processor (because it wasn't a priority of Jack's) and of course no 32 bit processor in the pipe.

Another huge mistake (once Jack left) was to kill the Commodore LCD computer, and sell off Commodore's LCD manufacturing plant (The ONLY LCD plant in America)

[amigadave]

1. Releasing the A500 Plus but not telling anyone, and having backward compatibility issues with it.

I just got an A500+ in a trade (in which I got totally screwed, thank Eric), but have never heard about any "backward compatibility issues" until now.  Please tell me what issues the A500+ has.  Mine has a AmigaOS3.1 Kickstart ROM installed in it.

[save2600]

You know, that got me to thinking about how "silly" hardware Kickstart switchers really were. I mean, why Commodore couldn't have included the option to boot from whatever Kickstart you wanted with each new revision. "Cost" aside (which many of us paid for anyway in the form of a switcher and extra ROM), why couldn't they had combined 2+ Kickstarts in the latest revisions along with some code that would allow a user to choose his or her flavor right from startup? An Amiga user with a battery backed clock and NVRAM (like the A3000) could retain your preference so as not to "inconvenience" the user. I know the argument is moot in the grand scheme of things and would involve a complete turn-a-round in C='s philosophy and design, but... lol

And what AmigaNG was probably referring to were the incompatibility issues 2.x+ had with 1.3. I had an A1200 right as soon as they were released and I gotta tell you, the Boot Menu didn't fully help get some of my old programs to run. It wasn't until later that we had Kickstart disks and other Degraders for our 3.x machines. I remember feeling really disappointed back then because obviously, I had amassed quite the collection of stuff, like most all of us.

[tone007]

I just got an A500+ in a trade (in which I got totally screwed, thank Eric), but have never heard about any "backward compatibility issues" until now.  Please tell me what issues the A500+ has.  Mine has a AmigaOS3.1 Kickstart ROM installed in it.

Some older games didn't like the KS2.0, 1MB Chipram, and/or ECS video it came with.

[amigadave]

I agree that the A2000 was priced too high for too long. I love the A2000, but it *is* essentially just an A500 with slots, a big box and a beefier power supply. Image and perception are everything though - the A2000 was a BEAST! In America, BIGGER is BETTER don'tcha know?

I don't know if anyone could have produced and sold the A2000 cheaper, but I do remember that I kept using my heavily modified A1000 for much longer than I wanted to because I could not afford an A2000 for probably about 3 years after I purchased my A1000 used in 1987.  Then I finally found a used A2000 that I could afford from someone who was either giving up on the Amiga, or they were upgrading to an A3000, or A4000.

I don't agree with you that the A2000 is just an A500 in a bigger box with slots and a bigger PSU.  Having those slots and an accelerator slot and the video slot was a huge improvement over the A500 which made possible the Video Toaster, the single most important add-on card that sold more Amiga computers than any other add-on in the Amiga's history, and kept the Amiga alive in the USA & Canada.  In fact I will go so far as to say that Commodore USA probably would have gone bankrupt a year or two earlier if the Video Toaster/Flyer had never been invented and with Commodore USA failing, Commodore UK and other branches of Commodore outside of the USA would have failed shortly afterward as well.

Having Zorro slots allowed A2000's to use many different add-on cards, but most importantly, RTG video cards to try to catch up with video cards in Intel computers and since Commodore failed miserably at marketing the Amiga to businesses and developing business applications that could compete with Microsoft's DOS and later Windows apps, the addition of ISA slots and the creation of the 386sx Bridgeboard (although too little, too late) allowed some Amiga users to justify continuing to use their A2000's for a little while longer.  Of course Commodore needed to complete and release the A2000 & A2500 much sooner than they did for them to have any chance of competing with the Intel boxes, but as long as they did not develop business apps and allowed the Amiga to be considered nothing more than a games machine or artist's tool, it did not matter how soon they released it.

[amigadave]

@save2600,

Yeah, one of the first things I bought for my second Amiga (an A2000) was a DKB MultiStart with 1.3 KS and 2.04 KS ROMs so I could continue using all of the games and programs I had bought for my A1000 which also had a DKB KwikStart ROM switcher with KS 1.3 & 2.04 ROMs.

[motrucker]

I just got an A500+ in a trade (in which I got totally screwed, thank Eric), but have never heard about any "backward compatibility issues" until now.  Please tell me what issues the A500+ has.  Mine has a AmigaOS3.1 Kickstart ROM installed in it.

OMG NO, it wasn't me! really! How could you all think such a thing...

[save2600]

@AmigaDave: Yeah, the Kickstart switcher was a necessary evil for a while there. Not arguing that fact, just wondering had C= implemented true backwards compatibility, how that would have affected their perception with other users, Amiga or otherwise.

And yes, totally agree about the VT keeping C= alive for a little while longer. I eluded to that with the expandability capability of the big box Amiga's, especially the 16-bit centered A2000 (until you added a processor card that is) and how long it kept the system viable for all those years. Really is a wonderful system that way - the A2000. Any of the big boys really, when you think about it. I just give the A2000 slightly more props because of its age, its seemingly open architecture and PC capabilities if anyone thinks that played a significant role (I'm not sure it did, but I'm not saying that it didn't either). And when I say the A2000 is little more than an A500, I meant in its core design. Both were capable of the same things: 1mb Agnus, 9MB Ram, FF/SD optional, Zorro expanders optional off the bus, including accelerators, etc. And I do believe you can towerize or at least slap a Bodega Bay on an A500 to have Zorro slots and even a video card if I am not mistaken. Might not be 100% Toaster compatible though IIRC.

[marcfrick2112]

Hey save2600, I've heard of at least one person using a Toaster on a 500, but with a home-made Zorro adapter, because the Toaster needs a video slot...:afro: Man, I wish I had some of those mad skills....Bodega Bay, no video slot, I bet it could be modded, tho.....

I don't even have a 2000, but I can repeat what some people have told me... Lots of expansion room, and built like a tank...

The array of Zorro cards boggles the mind....

Oh, maybe I should actually reply to the topic.... :razz:

I agree the whole Kickstart idea could have been done better... Would there have been a way to make the Kickstart flash memory of some sort, and update it via software?  (firmware upgrades, etc) Although, TBH, firmware updates are a little scary for me.... only worked once, upgraded a Philips CD burner in my PC.....

[ElPolloDiabl]

I just got an A500+ in a trade (in which I got totally screwed, thank Eric), but have never heard about any "backward compatibility issues" until now.  Please tell me what issues the A500+ has.  Mine has a AmigaOS3.1 Kickstart ROM installed in it.

It might be the 1MB chip ram, it affects some games. Otherwise try relokick to go to Kickstart 1.3.

[amigadave]

Hey save2600, I've heard of at least one person using a Toaster on a 500, but with a home-made Zorro adapter, because the Toaster needs a video slot...:afro: Man, I wish I had some of those mad skills....Bodega Bay, no video slot, I bet it could be modded, tho.....

I don't even have a 2000, but I can repeat what some people have told me... Lots of expansion room, and built like a tank...

The array of Zorro cards boggles the mind....

Oh, maybe I should actually reply to the topic.... :razz:

I agree the whole Kickstart idea could have been done better... Would there have been a way to make the Kickstart flash memory of some sort, and update it via software?  (firmware upgrades, etc) Although, TBH, firmware updates are a little scary for me.... only worked once, upgraded a Philips CD burner in my PC.....

Ever hear of the "KickFlash" and the Flash Memory on the Deneb that can be used the same way to contain Custom Kickstart files and configured to load them instead of your Kickstart ROM image?