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Author Topic: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?  (Read 126609 times)

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Offline Iggy

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #179 on: July 28, 2010, 03:32:27 AM »
Quote from: persia;572375
And this is different to the current situation in what way?

We currently have two expensive proprietary OSs on fundamentally obsolete hardware that have absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users remain.

Except that, so far, the free alternatives haven't proven to be stable enough.
Linux developers have made this argument for years and have made little inroad into Windows' and OSX's market.
While I like AROS, I don't consider 111 euros too expensive for a MorphOS license (the developers aren't making any real income on this one).

And, as to the statement that only the most dedicated remain, I see old users returning and people who didn't use Amiga equipment joining our community.
If you think we can match the development resources devoted to pushing the continuously upgraded systems present in Apple and PC markets you're deluded.
But, I do see our niche market slowly expanding, NOT collapsing.

Do you think the the phrase under your names is:

A)  an old Judas Priest album
B)  A religious zealots devotion
C)  or was the phrase chosen to make a point?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 04:47:31 PM by Iggy »
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Offline jj

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #180 on: July 28, 2010, 11:12:52 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;572338
Unfortunately, I don't think any such people exist now. All those that were able to make objective comparisons have already done so and made their choice.
 
What's left are people that will stick only with OS4 or MOS on principle.
 
Or at least that's how it seems these days.

I have never really been in either camp but was excited about A1 for awhile and always wanted to try AOS4.  But I didnt see the point on My PPC A1200 and there was no way I was spending the kind of money they wanted for a SAM let alone a X1000.
 
So in last few weeks bought a Mac mini silent ugrade for £150 and MorhpOS licence for £98.  Pretty cheap and the fastest Amiga-like-OS running capable machine out there (AROS aside) .  I am pretty happy with it and its so amiga like it is AmigaOS in all but name.  If you love AmigaOS you would love MorphOS.   The only thing blinding some people is the name.
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw

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Offline jj

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #181 on: July 28, 2010, 11:16:45 AM »
Quote from: persia;572375
And this is different to the current situation in what way?
 
 
 
We currently have two expensive proprietary OSs on fundamentally obsolete hardware that have absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users remain.

Dont get me wrong I can not see MorphOS becoming my main use OS that will still be ubuntu 10.4 and Win7.  Its all a hobby and a pretty fun one to me.  Got my interest back for awhile anyway.  Considering my classics have been gathering dust for at least 3 years now.
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw

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Offline rebraist

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #182 on: July 28, 2010, 01:20:37 PM »
My next words are dictated by "religion":
In the late 80s i graduated (is it the right term?) to a "computer science high school" here in italy.
We were all fanatics of computers, geeks, "nerds" and so on.
There were amigans, pc users, few atarist and no mac user.
Naturally aside by the study we read everything possible.
We, the amigans, thought we had the best machine ever.
Pc (and microsoft) were not our enemies. Simply they had a terrible monochromatic os.
We studied on olivetti ibm clones and unix machines.
In our view the only "enemies" of amiga were the other two 68x machines: atari st and mac.
In our view pc was simply a poor architecture.
Then went the 90s and windows.
If somebody had told me that one day i'd saw an amiga like os on a mac i would have called him, at least, an heretic. And still today i simply cannot use anything having the apple brand on it.
Nowaday i don't feel the same to x86.
It's totally the best technology available to the masses (not absolutely but to the masses).
So, i'm an aros fan because i think that as yesterday, today i have the best technological hardware solution available to me, using an os that is inspired by those principles that made amigaos3 great.
Everyone has his own thoughts about it.
Someone agrees with this, someone else doesn't.
Some years ago i was about to buy a peg, but money, at last, missed.
Morphos could be a great os, but simply thinking that in an indirect way i'd give my money to that @@@@ of s.jobs, No. Sorry. I can't make it.
I\'m not an heretic: an heretic is a morphos user! I\'m a perverted: i\'m an aros user!
edit:...i\'m now an heretic perverted... i\'m a morpharosian...
Evil has no limits... I\'ve even os4.1 too...
Is there in my house any space to sleep still?
 

Offline gdanko

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #183 on: July 28, 2010, 04:24:17 PM »
@rebraist

I like AROS, it has potential. The UI needs a lot of clean up and there needs to be more driver support. In 2-3 years it will be viable but for now it is not.
 

Offline gdanko

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #184 on: July 28, 2010, 04:27:20 PM »
Quote from: JJ;572403
Dont get me wrong I can not see MorphOS becoming my main use OS that will still be ubuntu 10.4 and Win7.  Its all a hobby and a pretty fun one to me.  Got my interest back for awhile anyway.  Considering my classics have been gathering dust for at least 3 years now.


For what I need, MorphOS is usable from day to day. My wife has Windows 7 and I cannot fathom an OS that needs > 2 GB to run comfortably. When she had XP on her 2 GB machine it ran really nicely but with Win 7 her machine crawls.

Ubuntu is a nice system and I have the Desktop version at home. I use both MorphOS and Ubuntu and either can be used for day to day stuff.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #185 on: July 28, 2010, 04:57:44 PM »
Frankly I've never found a Linux variant I wanted to keep and use everyday.
And I'll admit that MorphOS is not a main stream OS, but with about 1% of the market, neither is Linux (and not only am I willing to leave MorphOS installed, I use it and am willing to pay for it).

Also, our Italian friend is right, everything mainstream looks like an Amiga these days.
I just regret the friction that did exist between 68K system users. I used several different 68K based systems and the only one I was consistently disappointed by was Apple.

Further, I see no point in zealously promoting one type of Amiga related OS or hardware above another. I glad that all these projects exist. It shows a continuing (not waning) interest in the platform.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline clusteruk

Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #186 on: July 28, 2010, 05:15:28 PM »
Quote from: gdanko;572428
For what I need, MorphOS is usable from day to day. My wife has Windows 7 and I cannot fathom an OS that needs > 2 GB to run comfortably. When she had XP on her 2 GB machine it ran really nicely but with Win 7 her machine crawls.

Ubuntu is a nice system and I have the Desktop version at home. I use both MorphOS and Ubuntu and either can be used for day to day stuff.


I am amazed at the >2gb comment, understand it with Vista though, I run Windows 7 on a netbook with a single core atom and 1gb ram and it flies. But MorphOS to me is more polished than Aros but Aros IMHO has the best potential future and already has parts the others lack.
Amiga 1000/3000, iMica Silent and NVidia Aros computer.
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Lets enjoy the Amigas future, THIS year is 25th Anniversary lets make it special.
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Offline gdanko

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #187 on: July 28, 2010, 05:22:18 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;572431
Frankly I've never found a Linux variant I wanted to keep and use everyday.
And I'll admit that MorphOS is not a main stream OS, but with about 1% of the market, neither is Linux (and not only am I willing to leave MorphOS installed, I use it and am willing to pay for it).


What makes an OS mainstream? Commercial adoption? OS X has maybe 4% desktop adoption, does that make it a viable mainstream OS?

Does developer support make an OS mainstream? Linux has TONS of developer support but not many adopters?

Please quantify your statement about mainstream so I can better understand where you're coming from.
 

Offline MarkTime

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #188 on: July 28, 2010, 05:28:14 PM »
I appreciate that Amigans are staying true to their ideals - but the ideal I specifically have in mind - is the 'creative computer'.

The one that empowers the individual to create.  Even your old 8-bit Atari 800 or Commodore 64 was on the right track.  I remember my Atari 800 came up and said "READY" but READY to do what?  Why for you to program it, of course.

I spent hours writing games - creating content, rather than simply, using content others created.

By the time the Atari 520ST, the Amiga 500,were released we had affordable, powerful machines, that could empower you to create even more - if you remember before the word processor, writing your own book was meticulous and difficult - but suddenly we had help with layout, help with spelling, help with grammar - but at the same time, what happened to the built-in programmability of the machines?

We lost something - still many 3rd parties came to the rescue with excellent programming tools, so we didn't realize, at the time, what we were losing.  We bought the add-ons, and we kept programming.

But lets fast forward to today, we have two opposing dynamics, on one end, we have machines that are merely 'content consumption' the embodiment of which is the iPad - don't even need a full keyboard, just click, consume, watch, stare, get dumber, etc.  In this camp, they make no pretense at being a computer at all - it's more like a smart TV.

Although I own an iPad and admit I do use it for some artwork, it is 95% a content consumption device.

But we have another trend folks, another very exciting trend - the return of the creative computer.
Because we are slowly but surely, coming to understand programming as a 'commodity' task - it's not exclusive to people with advanced programming degrees - no.   Now employers will take anyone with talent - they'll train that high school graduate to do programming tasks, or even just outsource those tasks to India.

What it means, is we are beginning to understand that programming - is not special.  And that, my friends, is cool.  We all begin again, as creative people.

And what embodies that spirit?  Well ironically, Apple, in my mind.   They aren't just leading the charge for content consumption, but also content creation, with machines like the iMac.
But you may prefer Linux, or AROS, or MorphOS.   But the iMac, like the computers of yesteryear, comes bog standard with programming tools - XCode is included. Rad tools like Dashcode, included.

Apple expects that any user can create, and distribute, and even sell, an app for the iPhone.  Just buy a mac.

It's exciting times to be alive, and I love it.  And I know Steve Jobs is a little tyrant, and I hate that part of it.  But for me, I can't ignore the promise of the 'creative computer' and who embodies it better?

Windows PC? - What programming tool comes standard on Windows?  Nothing of note.  Can you do things on Windows, of course, but it hasn't really built a community that encourages creativity.  Mac - yes.  Linux - yes, but with the codicil that it's still for geeks, and not widespread enough.  Amiga-like - yes absolutely, but also with an asterisk, the RAD tools haven't kept pace, the technology is behind.
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #189 on: July 28, 2010, 05:28:39 PM »
Quote from: clusteruk;572434
I am amazed at the >2gb comment, understand it with Vista though, I run Windows 7 on a netbook with a single core atom and 1gb ram and it flies. But MorphOS to me is more polished than Aros but Aros IMHO has the best potential future and already has parts the others lack.



My friends netbook is the same specs and absolutely crawls with win7, but Im not sure how its configured.

Morph does look more polished, but there's a brick wall coming up in terms of hardware.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #190 on: July 28, 2010, 05:55:51 PM »
OSX's market share is about 5%. While small its significant that that is 5 times Linux's market share and Linux is divided between hundreds of variants on almost any platform imaginable.
What would appear to be Linux's two main strengths, its price and its availability have not been enough to drive its user base above that of commercial OS'.
Regardless of the number of developers you have working on Linux projects, frequently the quality and features available on commercial software running under Windows or OSX is superior.

As to Apple's drive to enable content creation, yes they consider that an important selling point, but I intensely dislike Apple's level of control over how and what you can do with their products.
Also, having seen numerous poorly executed products intoduced by Apple (including, but not limited to, the AppleIII, the Newton, the iPad) I have to wonder if their much touted design prowess isn't a hit or miss phenomenon.
Frankly, I just don't like Jobs and  I'm not that impressed with the product.

So, if I've got to give my money to a large vendor who's OS is primarily built on stolen ideas, I give it to the big Satan - Gates and Co. at Microsoft.

Also, at one time I believed that memory conservation was important and I was writing position independant reentrant 68K code. But memory's cheap. Vista (and Win7) like WinXP before it use extra memory to buffer hardware operations and speed up the entire OS. WinXP will run under 512MB (even less), but it really works better at 2gigs. Vista and Win7 will run with1 gig but they run better with 2gigs and more always better. Again, memorys cheap, why worry about it?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #191 on: July 28, 2010, 06:02:28 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;572441
OSX's market share is about 5%. While small its significant that that is 5 times Linux's market share and Linux is divided between hundreds of variants on almost any platform imaginable.
What would appear to be Linux's two main strengths, its price and its availability have not been enough to drive its user base above that of commercial OS'.


There's 160.000 android phones sold per day that would like to have a word with you.

Linux isn't just a desktop OS
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #192 on: July 28, 2010, 07:51:02 PM »
Quote from: runequester;572442
There's 160.000 android phones sold per day that would like to have a word with you.

Linux isn't just a desktop OS

Phones aren't computers.
And I never said I didn't admire some of the features of Linux. I've downloaded at least a hundred variants. I just haven't found one I wanted to use on a regular basis.

BTW - Did you notice that the object of your point was a commercial product. Maybe, that and volume could be considered some of the important features of a mainstream OS Certainly, Android is a mainstream phone OS.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #193 on: July 28, 2010, 07:59:06 PM »
Quote from: clusteruk;572434
I am amazed at the >2gb comment, understand it with Vista though, I run Windows 7 on a netbook with a single core atom and 1gb ram and it flies.


Yeah, it must be Vista he's talking about...

Quote
But MorphOS to me is more polished than Aros but Aros IMHO has the best potential future and already has parts the others lack.


Yes, AROS has some interesting parts that MorphOS lacks (even more so if you look at the bounties as "real features, just not quite here yet"), but it certainly goes the other way around as well, and I mean real features which goes beyond any level of "polishness" (as I'm sure you know, since I watched your great videos! :))

As for the future, all we can say about it is that it's unknown, right? MorphOS "management" (is there any? ;)) doesn't communicate on any kind of road map they might (or might not) have. AROS is AFAIK a bit more anarchistic in its development, right? But both OS's are in the hands of enthusiast developers, and I'm sure development for both will continue as long as there is an interest among them to do so.

If you build your claim about potential future on CPU architecture support, I wouldn't claim it's cut in stone that MorphOS will be PPC *forever* (unlike OS4). AFAIK, none of the developers has suggested it would; instead they have shown quite a realistic view on the matter IMHO, judging by the public posts I have seen from them...

I like AROS BTW, and I like the idea and philosophy behind it! :)

I'm even thinking of chipping in some money in one of the bounties, probably the wifi one...

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?
« Reply #194 from previous page: July 28, 2010, 08:00:24 PM »
Quote from: runequester;572442
Linux isn't just a desktop OS


Linux is a server OS and an embedded OS so much more than it is a desktop OS.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)