New Hyperion Entertainment Website http://a-eon.com/ - The Mystery Continues

[yssing]

but there aren't any PowerPC CPUs for the desktop market that are competitive with even midrange x86 CPUs like the Core2 and Phenom II

The Cell in the PS3 has 8 cores clocked at 3,2 GHz, granted only 6 of those area available to the developer. Linux performes very well on the PS3. Its very cheap and I know people who use is as their desktop computer.

Also, you really need to look at performace vs powerconsumption. Which Intel x86 based CPU only uses less than the 440? and still gives the same performance.

I dont know eveyrthing there is to know about CPUs far from it, but my guess is that the CELL is more than powerfull enough and that the PPC does have a future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)

[dammy]

but there aren't any PowerPC CPUs for the desktop market that are competitive with even midrange x86 CPUs like the Core2 and Phenom II

The Cell in the PS3 has 8 cores clocked at 3,2 GHz, granted only 6 of those area available to the developer. Linux performes very well on the PS3. Its very cheap and I know people who use is as their desktop computer.

Also, you really need to look at performace vs powerconsumption. Which Intel x86 based CPU only uses less than the 440? and still gives the same performance.

I dont know eveyrthing there is to know about CPUs far from it, but my guess is that the CELL is more than powerfull enough and that the PPC does have a future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)

How many watts does the SAM440's CPU/SoC consume?

[Zac67]

According to AMCC's data sheet:

Typical power (measured): Less than 3W at 533MHz,
2.5W at 400MHz.

[warpdesign]

Once upon a time, the Amiga was at the head, technically:

 - CPU, sound, graphics
 - Operating System

Then other machines caught up (since the Amiga didn't improve: it took them 7 (!) years to release a major upgrade, AGA chipset to the original one). So people started to say "ok, other machines can do nice things, but the AmigaOS is better anyway, cause Windows sucks, and started to argue around the OS.

Then other OS caught up as well (and went far, far beyond), so, well, what do we have now ?

 - slow and un-adapted CPU for desktop use
=> it consumes a lot more than desktop CPUs (of course! It's designed to run 24/24 in a printer, routers (well, no, routers now mostly run ARM cpus))

 - outdated OS
=> it boots faster (of course, it provides way less services, and I don't even talk about security, stability, lack of protection,...)

25 years ago, people were arguing about the Amiga's superiority.

Today, people are arguing about Amiga's inferiority. I wish people started to be humble, construct something really superior, and designed for its use, not some underpowered embbed stuff slower than a smartphone before thinking about superiority...

It's a fact: Amiga has lost every superiority... Now couldn't we live with/accept that ?

So yes, when you run 50 servers 24/7 power consumption is important. But as my desktop computer, it never was that important.

And about the PS3: it consumes way more than SNES. So it must sucks, right ? Even though it must consume less than a traditionnal PC, today's consoles (apart from the Wii maybe) are power hungry... This is a fact too.

[persia]

A lot of Amiga users live in a strange alternate universe where the last fifteen years in computers never took place.  A niche product is ok, but you have to have a niche in mind, not "you tell us what it can do, we don't have a clue..."

[Hammer]

but there aren't any PowerPC CPUs for the desktop market that are competitive with even midrange x86 CPUs like the Core2 and Phenom II

The Cell in the PS3 has 8 cores clocked at 3,2 GHz, granted only 6 of those area available to the developer. Linux performes very well on the PS3. Its very cheap and I know people who use is as their desktop computer.

Also, you really need to look at performace vs powerconsumption. Which Intel x86 based CPU only uses less than the 440? and still gives the same performance.

I dont know eveyrthing there is to know about CPUs far from it, but my guess is that the CELL is more than powerfull enough and that the PPC does have a future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)

Linux feature was removed from PS3 Slim. CELL's SPEs competes against GpGPUs.

[redrumloa]

So You think that the software done on one core, will work by itself without a rewrite of several core faster.
You're not very smart.

I see you joined in Dec 2009, belated welcome to Amiga.org. Please check out our posting guidelines.

http://www.amiga.org/index.php?pageid=posting_guidelines

Please refrain from remarks that can be seen as personal attacks.

[MskoDestny]

So You think that the software done on one core, will work by itself without a rewrite of several core faster.
You're not very smart.

You misunderstand. I'm saying that a single core on an i7 or even a Phenom II will outperform a G4 or even a PowerPC 970 core. nbench only measures the performance of a single core, not the whole chip.

The Cell in the PS3 has 8 cores clocked at 3,2 GHz, granted only 6 of those area available to the developer. Linux performes very well on the PS3. Its very cheap and I know people who use is as their desktop computer.

The Cell has a single PowerPC core and a bunch of SPEs. The PowerPC core may run at 3.2GHz, but since it's a relatively simple in-order design it's not all that fast (the Intel Atom has the same problem). The SPEs add a fair amount of oomph, but they're not really general purpose cores. They only have direct access to a very small amount of memory. Data from main memory has to be copied to this local memory via a DMA transfer in order for an SPE to work on it. They work in a manner more similar to a GPU than a CPU. They're a bit more general purpose than that, but GPUs have been getting more general purpose over time.

Also, you really need to look at performace vs powerconsumption. Which Intel x86 based CPU only uses less than the 440? and still gives the same performance.

It's not from Intel, but the VIA Eden ULV has a TDP of 1W at 500MHz (100mW at idle) and 3.5W at 1GHz (500mW idle). That's a little worse than the Titan (not sure about the chip in the SAM 440), but it's not bad. Not bad enough for x86 to have anything to worry about from PowerPC on the laptop/desktop anyway. ARM has more of a chance of putting a dent there. An ARM SoC intended for a smartphone has everything a cheap netbook needs whereas PowerPC SoC tend to be oriented towards communications equipment and thus lack things like video hardware.

I dont know eveyrthing there is to know about CPUs far from it, but my guess is that the CELL is more than powerfull enough and that the PPC does have a future.

PowerPC definitely has a future. Just not on the desktop.

[Crom00]

Ok... it' been almost 2 weeks since the puzzles. Any word out there on when more info will be dropped.
?

[TheGoose]

Gosh you didn't hear? The X1000 is going to be the 1st quantum computer sold to the "consumer electronics" market. But you will need to install a cat, you know, Schrödinger's Cat and all that tricky stuff. Nicknamed "feliX" by the developers.

[persia]

I hear it harnesses the power of the X-Men, or Xylophones or Xerxes, not sure which...

[Boudicca]

Gosh you didn't hear? The X1000 is going to be the 1st quantum computer sold to the "consumer electronics" market. But you will need to install a cat, you know, Schrödinger's Cat and all that tricky stuff. Nicknamed "feliX" by the developers.

Oh very droll, All computers, all matter to be exact has a quantum state, its how you look it then determines the outcome.

(Conventional Calculus)
* Example - How many Elephants can you get in a Mini ?, 2 in the front, 2 in the back and 1 in the trunk....  
(Deterministic Quantum Entanglement)
* Example - How many surrealists does it take to change a lightbulb ? Banana !

Phew...I thought I had lost it for a moment.........Time is up Thread No 5. What am I going to do now.......

[leszeka33]

- slow and un-adapted CPU for desktop use

People still bay and use PC with SLOWER processor than G4 - for example Intel Atom.
1GHz G4 is enough for work on linux, for use OpenOffice, Firefox, Java,Netbeans.  

Today, people are arguing about Amiga's inferiority.  

Only in Your imagination.  
Most of the software on my pc is one core only and run just a little bit faster than my G4.

I wish people started to be humble,  

Start with yourself.  

construct something really superior, and designed for its use, not some underpowered embbed stuff slower than a smartphone before thinking about superiority...

Nbench show that You lie. Use google  +linux +nbench .

It's a fact: Amiga has lost every superiority... Now couldn't we live with/accept that ?

You should accept the fact that the Amiga still represents the level of the middle pc available in a shop.

[yssing]

Look in all honesty, I alreayd stated, I dont know eveyrthing there is to know about CPUs, its a hardware issue, I really dont care I just want to develop SW.

But as for this debate X86 vs PPC is futile, AmigaOS only chance of X86 is with AROS just accept it.
PPC has a lot to offer, and I bet you lots of beers, that if it didnt, then Hyperion would have chosen some thing else years ago.
When it all boils down, then I for one trust Hyperions choice.

This thread has become (as every x86 vs ppc thread does), the never ending story.

Over and out, I will go back to just reading news again. IMHO its those x86 zealots who are now killing of the amiga.

[dammy]

Look in all honesty, I alreayd stated, I dont know eveyrthing there is to know about CPUs, its a hardware issue, I really dont care I just want to develop SW.

But as for this debate X86 vs PPC is futile, AmigaOS only chance of X86 is with AROS just accept it.
PPC has a lot to offer, and I bet you lots of beers, that if it didnt, then Hyperion would have chosen some thing else years ago.
When it all boils down, then I for one trust Hyperions choice.

I'll bite, what major success has Hyperion achieved to earn that trust?  AFIAK, it's two guy, one is only part time, who have a bunch of subcontractors who, last I heard, have not been fully paid for their initial work.  I would like to understand your reasoning to trust Hyperion's decisions, but I fail to see anything beyond simple faith that things will work out in the end.

This thread has become (as every x86 vs ppc thread does), the never ending story.

Over and out, I will go back to just reading news again. IMHO its those x86 zealots who are now killing of the amiga.

No, it's clearly the PPC fanatics who have hobbled the Amiga.  It was clearly a bad choice back then, it's suicidal choice to stay with something that's only use is for embedded market (automotive and networking because of Cisco use of PPC).  Netbooks will likely out preform X1000 on it's launch, question is now when will mobile phones surpass the X1000.

[Boudicca]

I'll bite,

I bet you do.

I get the impression there is some confusion that there is some sort of hardware race to catch up with.

X86 does what X86 does, there is no obligation that PPC must follow or even lead. Why does it have to be more that 1mhz / a gadzillion terrafloppies or even capable of playing anything remotely close to the Assassins Credit Card ?

The imagination and application of technology drives change not the other way round. Computer Music only came into existence because of the interference cause by the computer electronics.

Whether or not X1000 is the best thing since sliced bread depends on the user and it doesn't even need a fighting chance at out flopping the x86, the Iphone proves that and it wasn't cheap either.

Stop concentrating on the what x86 can do and imagine what the x1000 could do. Or as Bruce Lee said "Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory!"