PowerUP vs WarpOS.. what was it all about again?

[cgutjahr]

GCX supports dragging only with a very limited set of gfx cards (they're listed in the docs, IIRC), the BVision is not one of them.

[warpdesign]

Conclusion
~~~~~~~~~~

There are no anti-WOS routines in Blizzard PPC flashrom.
There are just bugs in WarpUP and Warp3D and other libraries.

ppc.library install patch to dos/LoadSeg() function that does
OpenLibrary("ppc.library", x) and does not test for failure.

Seems like there were bugs in PUP as well...

malloc() can return NULL... so can OpenLibrary()...

[Piru]

Conclusion
~~~~~~~~~~

There are no anti-WOS routines in Blizzard PPC flashrom.
There are just bugs in WarpUP and Warp3D and other libraries.

ppc.library install patch to dos/LoadSeg() function that does
OpenLibrary("ppc.library", x) and does not test for failure.

Seems like there were bugs in PUP as well...

malloc() can return NULL... so can OpenLibrary()...

As I already explain in the document, in this case OpenLibrary() cannot fail. Apparently you missed it, so let me try to explain in in more detail.

ppc.library LIB_OPEN does (roughly):

Code: [Select]

struct Library *lib_open(...)
{
  LibBase->lib.lib_OpenCnt++;
  return &LibBase->lib;
}
Also, the ppc.library LIB_EXPUNGE does:

Code: [Select]

BPTR lib_expunge(...)
{
  return 0;
}
This means that once ppc.library is in memory it
1) cannot be removed
2) OpenLibrary("ppc.library", 0) cannot fail

This in turn means that it is perfectly legal to perform PPCBase = OpenLibrary("ppc.library", 0); inside the library code and expect it to succeed. The library code in question cannot be executing in the first place unless if the library is in memory already.

No bug there. I'm not saying ppc.library would have been 100% bug free, but this is NOT one of the bugs.

The problems only can appear when someone does something as stupid is forcibly remove the library from memory. WarpUP did exactly this. Doing hacks like this can only lead to trouble. The obvious (and 100% system legal) way to handle this is to add a replacement resident tag for the ppc.library which overrides the original library, making sure it never even gets loaded. This is what bppcfix application does. WarpUP coders themselves were just unable to figure such a basic thing out, but instead resorted to unreliable hacks.

When those hacks failed who did they blame? The ppc.library authors.

[Ancalimon]

The ultimate question to all these things would be: Why?

For me when I first bought my BPPC, (BVision was not around by that time I think) PPC programs were unstable, most of them seemed to run very fast but with constant occational pauses which was irritating. ( like one movie player and some unarchivers) When warpos was released performance dropped a little but the pauses went away. This is what I remember about Powerup vs Warpup. I was happy about warpup.

[Piru]

The ultimate question to all these things would be: Why?

Indeed. PowerUP was perfectly fine (and I don't remember any pauses with it, although I missed the very first versions).

WarpOS didn't provide any real advantage over PowerUP either. It was remarkably similar, only designed badly and implemented shoddily. Any grand ideas Haage&Partner might have had about using WarpOS has a base of a new PPC AmigaOS were just plain laughable. Unfortunately their FUD campaign was quite effective. Some of it can be seen here.

[EvilGuy]

The ultimate question to all these things would be: Why?

For me when I first bought my BPPC, (BVision was not around by that time I think) PPC programs were unstable, most of them seemed to run very fast but with constant occational pauses which was irritating. ( like one movie player and some unarchivers) When warpos was released performance dropped a little but the pauses went away. This is what I remember about Powerup vs Warpup. I was happy about warpup.

It was different for us CSPPC users; PowerUP was exceptionally stable. Then WarpOS came out with their claims and their software and things just got worse.

Not long after I gave up on the Amiga; I stopped my native PowerUP AROS port and packed everything away.

[EvilGuy]

Unfortunately their FUD campaign was quite effective. Some of it can be seen here.

Oh the memories!

[rvo_nl]

GCX supports dragging only with a very limited set of gfx cards (they're listed in the docs, IIRC), the BVision is not one of them.

I am really surprised by this. During the years I had no PPC, I always thought I could drag screens on my old setup. Perhaps using some third-party hack? I will look around. Thanks for your answers.

[rvo_nl]

Would you have the time to write down the steps you went through to get your setup the way you want it with the PPC working as good as it can?

PM sent

[Vulture]

@rvo_nl

saddly, Cgx can't drag screens with BVision. Which is a shame as P96 under OS4 does that happily. Too bad P96 for BVisionPPC was never materialized under OS3.x :/ Not that Cgx is bad, it has some nice features by itself.

[rvo_nl]

@rvo_nl
 
saddly, Cgx can't drag screens with BVision. Which is a shame as P96 under OS4 does that happily. Too bad P96 for BVisionPPC was never materialized under OS3.x :/ Not that Cgx is bad, it has some nice features by itself.

must have mixed up some things in my mind during the years. thanks for confirming.

[mousehouse]

Not to hijack the thread, small question to the PPC experts ;-)

I have finally managed to get a proper install of OS3.9 running on my Amiga 4000 with Cyberstorm PPC card. Now this installed WarpOS PowerPC support, as it came bundled. I'd like to develop some small programs to play around, nothing fancy and build them for 68060 as well as PowerPC.

1) Can I do development of PowerPC apps with SAS/C ? I have the latest version (legal !).

2) Should I ditch WarpOS from the system and install the PowerUp! libraries instead? As far as I have been able to deduct from the threads here PowerUp! is really really dead versus Warp which is just dead...

Thanks for any insight provided...

[Framiga]

you can install WarpOS and then download Frank Wille ppclibemu from Aminet and you will get both ppc versions support up and running

If you get troubles with the latest powerpc.library 16.1, download this powerpc.library 16.1.beta1

[Piru]

Not to hijack the thread, small question to the PPC experts ;-)

1) Can I do development of PowerPC apps with SAS/C ? I have the latest version (legal !).

There was a SAS/C 7 for PowerUP. It wasn't widely circulated, I think.

There is no support for WarpOS in it.

2) Should I ditch WarpOS from the system and install the PowerUp! libraries instead?

From purely technical point of view: Yes.
From practical point of view: No (most software is for WOS, unfortunately)

[arnljot]

From purely technical point of view: Yes.
From practical point of view: No (most software is for WOS, unfortunately)

I'm looking into starting development for the Amiga as a hobby coder.

Should I write ppc.library software and make sure it runs under WOS PPC lib emmulation, or does it not matter (from a practical point of view) anymore?

Sorry for the slightly off topic question.

[Crumb]

Small usable base of users though. Only works with big box amigas sporting CSPPC and certain graphic cards, or 1200 and BPPC and grex. Come to think of it classic amigas with PPC are nearly extinct already. :confused:

MorphOS 1.4.5 also works on A1200 with Zorro slots. PicassoIV and CV3D should work flawlessly.

@arnljot
WarpOS apps should work in both OS4/MorphOS but on real WarpOS you'll have to try to avoid context changes.