PowerUP vs WarpOS.. what was it all about again?

[rvo_nl]

sorry. see below.

[rvo_nl]

Hmm it seems classic ppc users are hard to find these days.. or perhaps my description wasnt clear enough. Let me try again:
 
1) Im having problems installing WarpOS. Its not terminating PowerUP properly. I always get the 'Terminate' requester when I try to run a PowerUP program. I do have to install the 'compatible' V7 library, right? Or is this not needed anymore?
 
2) Is there some setting in the PPC menu, or perhaps a later FlashUpdate (I have quite a late one, I think. Dont know how to check) that fixes things?
 
3) Also, I can not user WarpOS in conjunction with the OS3.9 JPEG datatype. Why is this? I thought OS3.9 comes installed with WarpUP by default? Do I need something else, like Ramlibemu from Aminet?
 
4) Perhaps CyberGraphX installs some PowerUP-stuff that I shouldnt want? I read that somewhere.
 
5) Warp3D is not working the way it should either. Wipeout 2097 runs way too slow and its graphics dont look that great (the lensflares especially)
 
6) Can someone tell me the difference between powerpc.library and ppc.library? Is one installed in the Flash of the PPC board?
 
7) What else do I need to know?
 
Its funny. Back in 1998 I had a often-used 'unofficial powerpc support website' (and now that I think of it, also a large mailinglist), but nowadays I dont remember a thing..

[cgutjahr]

Im having problems installing WarpOS. Its not terminating PowerUP properly

IIRC, even H&P recommended not to use the termination feature of WarpOS. The recommended way is using BPPCFix:

http://pb-owl.de/~frank/BPPCFix.lha

copy the bppcfix executable to C: and then add the following line to Startup-Sequence (before setpatch):

C:BPPCFix INSTALL REBOOT >NIL:

or (if you have 3.9 and Setpatch resets the machine anyway):

C:BPPCFix INSTALL >NIL:

Make sure the ENV variable "powerpc/terminator" (or something like that, can't remember) is not set, then reboot. Now you could install WarpOS (but the fact that you can run WipeOut 2097 means that WarpOS already works):

http://aminet.net/search?query=warpup_v

That's all you need to install for now. No Emulations, no compatible versions, no nothing. That (+Warp3D) is what you need to get WipeOut running. If you have installed anything else, remove it again. Once WipeOut and the OS 3.9 picture datatype (which uses the PowerPC for rescaling pictures, IIRC) work fine, you can install other stuff.

As you seem to have some of the names mixed up:

ppc.library = PowerUp = original solution from Phase5 = stored in ROM = useless these days
powerpc.library = WarpUp = WarpOS = replacement from H&P = the thing you want to use

[rvo_nl]

fantastic reply cgutjahr. just what I needed. I guess this bppcfix thing came just after my ppc board blew up. I will try this tomorrow and reinstall my amiga (for the 20th time this month) just to be sure. I will then install warpup 5.1 with the v14 library, like youre suggesting.
 
I do have a few more questions for you or someone else to answer..
 
is picture.datatype using powerup or warpup?
could my shaky setup cause the wrong rendering of warp3d software like wipeout?
is cybergraphx using any ppc drivers or libraries?
how can I check what flashupdate Im running?

[cgutjahr]

is picture.datatype using powerup or warpup?

As OS 3.5/3.9 was done by H&P (the authors of WarpUp) the picture datatype uses WarpUp. Pretty much anything released after 1998 supports WarpUp, as PowerUp had lost the war by then.

is cybergraphx using any ppc drivers or libraries?

First of all: BPPCFix kills the ppc.library, i.e. it removes PowerUp from your system. You can't run any PowerUp software anymore (unless you install the PowerUp emulation, but that's another story), so you don't need to be worried about PowerUp software messing up your system.

There was a CybergraphX update containing some PowerUp code, but it was a stupid idea anyway and got dropped again later on.

could my shaky setup cause the wrong rendering of warp3d software like wipeout?

No.

how can I check what flashupdate Im running?

You don't need to be concerned about Flash ROM updates, your system works.

[Fab]

ppc.library = PowerUp = original solution from Phase5 = stored in ROM = useless these days
powerpc.library = WarpUp = WarpOS = replacement from H&P = the thing you want to use

As OS 3.5/3.9 was done by H&P (the authors of WarpUp) the picture datatype uses WarpUp. Pretty much anything released after 1998 supports WarpUp, as PowerUp had lost the war by then.

Another sad story. WarpOS had nothing better to offer. Only heavy propaganda and lies allowed it to become a "standard". A real shame, and the lesson wasn't even learned.

I still remember how fastquake for PowerUP beats the WarpOS quake ports, even though WarpOS was supposed to have much faster context switches, while it was obviously totally wrong.

[EvilGuy]

Another sad story. WarpOS had nothing better to offer. Only heavy propaganda and lies allowed it to become a "standard". A real shame, and the lesson wasn't even learned.

Yep, all it did was drive the only Amiga PowerPC manufacturer out of business. But then, this is the Amiga market and egos always end up f**king up a perfectly good product.

[Tension]

Is there anywhere we can read up about this??  I remember all the debate but would love to read about it now that i'm older and wiser.

[Bamiga2002]

Quite a bit is covered here.

[Piru]

Quite a bit is covered here.

And more is covered here.

WarpUP was abandoned later on (obviously because everyone could see it was such a mess to begin with, and no way could be used for any basis of future AmigaOS. Also, for some incomprehensible reason it was mostly written in assembler, thus make it quite impossible to work with). It was never used as any base for future AmigaOS.

On the other hand the concepts and ideas of PowerUP (as laid out in ppc.library) were used as basis when designing MorphOS. The very first MorphOS releases could run old PowerUP apps transparently.

Haage&Partner did more damage than many of you can imagine. In addition to bringing forth WarpUP and concepts within, the also:
- Released AmigaOS 3.5 without promised TCP/IP stack (still advertised to have one!)
- Stole AmiTCP/IP for AmigaOS 3.9
- Mauled Amithlon

Interestingly Haage&Partner's license to develop and distribute AmigaOS is considered "terminated" (page 40).

[rvo_nl]

First of all: BPPCFix kills the ppc.library, i.e. it removes PowerUp from your system. You can't run any PowerUp software anymore (unless you install the PowerUp emulation, but that's another story)

Wait. You mean by using BPPCFix I wont be able to run PowerUP software under emulation either? Sorry, but I really want to do jus that. Is this installed by the WarpUP package and do I now select the compatible version or the lastest version during install? Sorry for not being clear enough.
 

You don't need to be concerned about Flash ROM updates, your system works.

Barely! but it does, true.. However, I recall there was some flashupdate that removed parts of ppc.library allowing for better emulation or something like that. Like I said, its many years ago for me.

[zipper]

Wait. You mean by using BPPCFix I wont be able to run PowerUP software under emulation either? Sorry, but I really want to do jus that. Is this installed by the WarpUP package and do I now select the compatible version or the lastest version during install? Sorry for not being clear enough.

You can, main thing is to just copy the emulation library (ppc.library) to Libs:
There's an installer and documentation in the package - to do a setenv and bppcfix.

[rvo_nl]

kkthx. will try this out tonight.

[Ancalimon]

When I hadan Amiga1200, I used OS3.9, blizkick and with it the BPPCFix module (and the scsi.device from PowerFlyer). I had the latest warpup, and the emulated ppc.library. One of the latest library was buggy so I was using the older one. Nearly every old thing worked properly. And all new things worked too.

[Gavilan]

And more is covered here.

WarpUP was abandoned later on (obviously because everyone could see it was such a mess to begin with, and no way could be used for any basis of future AmigaOS. Also, for some incomprehensible reason it was mostly written in assembler, thus make it quite impossible to work with). It was never used as any base for future AmigaOS.

On the other hand the concepts and ideas of PowerUP (as laid out in ppc.library) were used as basis when designing MorphOS. The very first MorphOS releases could run old PowerUP apps transparently.

Haage&Partner did more damage than many of you can imagine. In addition to bringing forth WarpUP and concepts within, the also:
- Released AmigaOS 3.5 without promised TCP/IP stack (still advertised to have one!)
- Stole AmiTCP/IP for AmigaOS 3.9
- Mauled Amithlon

Interestingly Haage&Partner's license to develop and distribute AmigaOS is considered "terminated" (page 40).

@Piru: what you say here is very interesting. I (and i think many "middle-entry" Amiga users) always had the impression that WarpUp whas THE choice, the path to go, and that PowerUP was poorly and badly written, with less compatibility, more issues, etc etc

I think all mags in that era were also "fascinated" by Warp Up, and since in that times i had no Internet, my only source of information about Amiga were the Amiga mags (mostly british).

Now, after reading all this, i feel like breaking a "myth" that surrounded all this WarpUp vs. PowerUp thing...

I remember many moons ago, first time i installed PowerUp, i inmediately changed and installed WarpUp with PowerUp emulation...i wanted to try Wipeout2097 so so badly...never ever got trough main screen tough.

Never tried that again, and i switched back to "Classic Amiga with no PPC".
Later on, some ready-to-go packages did all what was difficult, easy so..i never tried all that stuff again (A real pity, since i own all PPC Amiga games that were released during that time and later). But, imagine, i had so so much trouble setting up T-Zero to play correctly in my machine...you can imagine what kind of Amiga user i am.. :lol:

Thanks for all the info and clarification