Indivision or other options?

[koshman]

Hi,
I've recently returned to Amiga and bought A4000D. Now I'm wondering about the classic question - the best way to hook it up to my LCD. Originally I was hoping to use an external upscan converter, but the only one I was able to get for a decent price doesn't work the way I hoped it would.
I planned to spend some money on a PCI expansion and a Voodoo to get WB  in decent res, but now I'm thinking about rather buying an Indivision, because I want to be able to play games. What I'm interested in is how slow/fast is WB when using highgfx 1024x768 with AGA on stock A4000 (A3640)? I don't expect wonders, just want to know if the speed is tolerable. More specifically would there be a big difference between PAL Laced (640x512) in 64 colours that I've been using and 1024x768 in 8-16 colours? The speed of the former has been good enough for me.

Additionally, what other scandoubler and/or external solutions are there that not only double horizontal range to 31KHz, but can also output PAL 50Hz upped to 60Hz? Because of common LCD limitations, eg. my Samsung.
Indivision is great, but not exactly cheap in absolute terms (€130 is a lot for me).

Thanks a lot!

[cv643d]

1024x768 in 8-16 colours is going to feel plenty fast if you have a fast CPU, with a 060 it is going to be quite enjoyable if you want a plain WB.

Off curse it is difficult to measure in your head but it felt as fast or faster than my A2000, 030 with a slow Picasso2 card in 256 colors (I would take the 060/HighGFX any day over the A2000).

Its a bit expensive but well worth it, Royce Rolls of Scandoublers IMHO.

[koshman]

Thank you for your insight.
I suppose the CPU will be a problem, because the stock 040/25MHz without onboard Fast RAM can hardly be compared to 060. I'm planning to buy a Cyberstorm eventually, but I will have to bear with A3640 for the next 3 - 6 months.
More opinions welcome.

Btw. does the A4000 motherboard has the same artifacting problem when using Indy + highgfx modes as A1200?

[TheGoose]

I am using Indivision AGA, 1024x768 at 64 colors. I run a
68030 @ 50 Mhz with 128MB. I think after I did some of the speed up
patches, it is very usable, and have a backdrop pattern and the AmiDock
running.

I Installed these patches and all is running smooth:
( see this thread? http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50414 )

FBlit & FText
BlazeWCP
IconBeFast

Another idea might be to email this guy with his s-video adapter:

http://www.amigamaniac.com/RGB_to_PAL_NTSC_adapter.html
Looks pretty cool

[koshman]

Thank you. That sounds very encouraging, I suppose the 040/25MHz should be at least comparable to your Blizzard even though it doesn't have its own Fast RAM.

Btw, regarding that RGB->SVIDEO adapter, do you know if I plug it eg. to an external TV tuner and from that by VGA to LCD, does the tuner scandouble both frequencies? For example AvertTV Box 7 claims to be compatible with all displays.

[TheGoose]

Hey koshman,

About the AveryTV tunner card, I'm not sure but with this gadget, it seems it would be possible; take the s-video out from the Amiga, connect it to the s-video in on your capture card and have look. Most LCD TVs have s-video in-s on them if not a couple.

An Amiga on s-video can look really good from some youtube stuff I've seen.

[koshman]

Eh, so many options, none of them exactly cheap.... :-( Should I buy the Indy, a new LCD TV, is a TV Tuner and S-Video out enough? A different scandoubler or an external VGA box/upscan converter.....
I guess I'll just get back to writing my diploma thesis (just 10 more pageees woo hoo ) and stop thinking about Amiga for now or else my head will blow up...
Thanks anyway for your opinions.

[Gulliver]

The cheapest option i am using right now is the following:

Amiga RGB to SVHS adapter USD 30 on http://www.amigamaniac.com
SVHS to VGA adapter box    USD 27 on ebay (brand new) http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-Laptop-VIDEO-AND-S-VIDEO-to-VGA-Converter-BOX-T-11_W0QQitemZ260512987339QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca7c8b8cb

Total= 57 USD + shipping (the SVHS box was free shipping and Amigamaniac charges very little)

Advantages:
SVHS box has picture adjustments, it comes with its own PSU and cables. It is an external unit, so it works with all Amigas and is a 24 bit solution unlike others which are 16 bit only. Besides, i  still get as an add-on, better color composite output than any modulator or Amiga out there. And if you need SVHS for something, you already have an output.

[koshman]

Gulliver, I'm forever in your debt. That's exactly what I was looking for Thank you very much. It's not a big expense and I can always buy a scandoubler later if I'm not happy with the picture quality (but judging from the Youtube video by Cammy, SVIDEO looks pretty good). I hope amigamaniac will have a new batch of the converters ready soon.

Btw, is the quality good enough for higher res WB? 800x600 Super72, 1024x768 highgfx etc. Thanks.

Oh, just to make sure before I order it - the SVHS box will get a standard PAL to 31.5+KHz horizontal, 56+Hz vertical? Thanks.

[SamuraiCrow]

I think S-Video is an NTSC scan rate so if you want to play PAL games on your A4000, you might want to consider something with a SCART adapter instead of the SVideo style adapter.

[koshman]

Actually the eBay listing mentions selectable vertical output frequency of 60 or 75Hz so that should be fine. I'm more interested in the horizontal.
This is a really great solution for the price.

[Rob]

HighGFX appears to need either a scandoubler or a monitor capable of 22khz.  

http://aminet.net/package/driver/moni/HighGFX40_6

Get some 72 pin simms to install on your A4000 and you'll be able to us Fblit and BlazeWCP to speed up certain operations.

http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/fblit

http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/Blazewcp

[koshman]

I suppose that the converter doubles the horizontal frequency too, otherwise I wouldn't even think about it as an alternative to a scendoubler.

I have the standard 16MB on the mainboard. Is that what you mean or do I need a Fast RAM on an expansion board to use those utilities?

[Gulliver]

@koshman

It works in 31khz, with no problems. Quality is very good, i never used those screenmodes though, but i can tell you that you are able to use a wordprocessor without hurting your eyes. There is no color bleeding and the edges of the different shapes are pretty clear and tidy.

By the way, it works both on NTSC and PAL (Amigamaniac adapter works with both too)! It supports overscan and underscan display modes.

Resolutions of VGA signals at 31khz (according to docs):
640x480 @ 60/72/75/85hz
800x600 @ 60/75hz
1024x768 @ 60/75hz
1280x1024  @ 60hz

I am glad it help you!

[desiv]

Of course, amagamaniac stopped making those adapters, but he recently announced he's redesigning the board and is eventually planning another run.
So you might have to be a bit patient, but I'm happy.  (I missed his last run by a few weeks!!!)

desiv