New user - need help installing OS3.9 on large harddrive

[rvo_nl]

I'm trying to get the full 120gb of my IDE harddisk to be recognised by HDtoolbox under OS3.9. I am a bit lost for ideas and need your help! I've been out of the Amiga scene for too long.

I own a KS3.1 a1200t with blizzardppc/bvision and an idefix/express. currently Im using a blizzard 1230 to install os3.9 (to rule out ppc issues). The harddrive is a Maxtor 120GB IDE. Its recognised, as are both the cdrom drives. The jumpers are set on the Express. I have installed OS3.9 and Boing Bag 1 + 2. I have also installed the IDE-Fix software.

The problem is, no matter what I try, only 2 partitions of 4GB each are shown in HDToolBox. I know this is a limitation, but how to get rid of it? I think I've read all the guides and topics on the internet by now..

Here's what I tried so far:

- Disabled MapROM and MMU on the blizzard1230
- Tried renaming DEVS:AmigaOS ROM Update, so its not loaded. This worked, kickstart 40.68 instead of 45.57 was shown in the Workbench About window, but HDToolbox still only displayed the first 8GB of my drive.
- Used SetPatch SKIPROMUPDATES "scsi.device", so the scsi.device would not be loaded to memory. But then, what is loaded instead? I sort of expected a patched scsi.device on the IDE-Fix disk and in my devs: drawer, but couldnt find it. Is this one of my silly questions? When OS3.9 is loaded scsi.device 40.12 is resident.
- ensured 'If EXISTS C:IDEFix C:IDEFix Set SCSIUpdate 0 EndIf' was in the startup-sequence
- Tried using '"C:IDEfix" to C:LoadIDE START QUIET' instead, but after the maprom reboot the harddisk wouldnt boot at all. Strange, since IDEfix would be made resident by this command.
- Tried editing DEVS:NSDPatch.cfg (commenting 2 lines out) but it didnt make any difference.

My questions are:

1) What should I blame? The harddrive, scsi.device, fastfilesystem or hdtoolbox?

2) Why is IDEfix not using a patched scsi.device? Do I need scsi.device in devs?

3) Is there any version of HDtoolbox that is better than the one in OS3.9+BB2 (45.6)?

4) same goes for fastfilesystem. Ive tried 45.9 and 45.13. Perhaps FFS is not important right now, because of question 5.

5) How do I install SFS so I can use that to partition/format the drive? I tried copying it over from the OS4.0 cd, but that wasnt enough. This is probably the PPC native version anyway..?

6) When I install the PPC native version of SFS, where is SFS 'saved'? (Not in the RDB from what I know) And does this mean I cannot use the drive under OS3.9 anymore? How do I overcome this problem, is FFS better in this case?

7) Is it okay/normal to enter values like heads, cylinders of my harddrive in hdtoolbox, to get the full 120gb recognised, or should I continue to get os3.9 to recognise it by itself? (I prefer and expected this, ofcourse)

Thanks for your help.

[Gulliver]

Your problem is only scsi.device!

It needs to be updated either to 43.45 or 44.2

Get the 43.45 update patch from
http://aminet.net/driver/media/SCSI4345p.lha
Read the doc cause you will need a couple of extra files, also present in Aminet


This is an alternative for HDToolbox http://aminet.net/disk/misc/hdinst.lha


Good Luck!

[rvo_nl]

Thanks for your answer. Its quite complicated, to be honest. I cant believe everyone with a bigger harddrive has to go trough all this trouble. I was missing Extractmodule and have to burn another cdrom only for that Unfortunately, HDinstTools didnt work either. Will give it another try soon but I doubt this will solve my issues..

[Damion]

When I install the PPC native version of SFS, where is SFS 'saved'? (Not in the RDB from what I know) And does this mean I cannot use the drive under OS3.9 anymore? How do I overcome this problem, is FFS better in this case?

SFS is likely copied to l: drawer, the generic place for storing filesystems. It's not recognized by the system until you install it to the RDB with HDToolBox/HDInstTool.

Is it okay/normal to enter values like heads, cylinders of my harddrive in hdtoolbox, to get the full 120gb recognised, or should I continue to get os3.9 to recognise it by itself? (I prefer and expected this, ofcourse)

No problem entering the correct values yourself.

IMHO - see if you can track down a copy of PFS3 and use HDInstTool. The direct-scsi version of PFS3 works great on the A1200 IDE with large drives, and provides a nice speedup.

Also - try doing a search on the topic and look for posts by user Thomas. He's very knowledgeable on the subject and has posted a wealth of good info.

[Gulliver]

I agree with Damion, if you find PFS3, that will be better and faster than SmartFileSystem and will solve all your issues!

[Thomas]

The problem is, no matter what I try, only 2 partitions of 4GB each are shown in HDToolBox. I know this is a limitation, but how to get rid of it?

Make an OS 3.9 emergency disk, boot from the emergency disk and then use OS 3.9's HDToolbox to install the HDD again. Note that this will delete all partitions.

Neither SFS nor PFS will solve any issues. If the HDD is installed as 8GB, there is nothing a file system could do.

If you are lazy you can use this: http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/fixhddsize

Tried renaming DEVS:AmigaOS ROM Update, so its not loaded.

Bad idea. You need the ROM update.

1) What should I blame? The harddrive, scsi.device, fastfilesystem or hdtoolbox?

Your lazyness. The right way to install OS 3.9 is first to make an emergency disk, then boot from the emergency disk and then install OS 3.9. The right way to install a new harddrive is to make an emergency disk if it does not yet exist, then change the hardware, then boot from the emergency disk and install the drive.

With scsi.device V40 you cannot use more than 4GB and HDToolbox does not see more than 8GB. If you install the HDD like this, it will be 8GB, not matter how many patches you install.

Bye,
Thomas

[rvo_nl]

Hi Thomas, thanks for taking the time to reply.

Make an OS 3.9 emergency disk, boot from the emergency disk and then use OS 3.9's HDToolbox to install the HDD again. Note that this will delete all partitions.

I could try, but the emergency disk never worked for me. I get the 'invalid resident.library' warning, like described in the OS3.9 FAQ. I am sure my ROMS are 3.1. I have put the 040 and 060 libraries from the ppc install disk on the disk aswell, and workbench.library is v45+

Neither SFS nor PFS will solve any issues. If the HDD is installed as 8GB, there is nothing a file system could do.

Right, but you are saying when I boot from the emergency disk and install the drive that way, the 120GB will show up?

If you are lazy you can use this: http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/fixhddsize

I am far from lazy and am already spending too much time getting this machine to work. I will give it a try, but like with entering drive info (cylinders, sectors etc) myself, I have the feeling it should be a lot easier. I mean, is everyone using A1/Peg/SAM these days or are you all still using <4GB drives?

With scsi.device V40 you cannot use more than 4GB and HDToolbox does not see more than 8GB. If you install the HDD like this, it will be 8GB, not matter how many patches you install.

And with 'if you install the HHD like this', you mean, without using the emergency disk? Any ideas on how to get that to work?

Or should I replace scsi.device? Its dated 12/21/1993, surely that is not the one IDEfix has installed for me?

Or should I enter my harddrive details manually?

Or should I install OS4 instead?

[Thomas]

Right, but you are saying when I boot from the emergency disk and install the drive that way, the 120GB will show up?

The basic rule is you need support for larger harddrives being active in order to see the full capacity. The driver in Kickstart only supports 8 GB.

In order to change the partitionable area of a HDD you have to go to the "install drive" part of HDToolbox. Doing so will delete all existing partitions. If you want to keep the existing partitions and only add the additional space, you should use FixHDDSize.

And with 'if you install the HHD like this', you mean, without using the emergency disk?

I mean with the original Kickstart IDE driver scsi.device V40.

If you don't like the idea of an emergency disk you can also install OS 3.9, reboot and then install the HDD again. But that's much more work.

Or should I replace scsi.device? Its dated 12/21/1993, surely that is not the one IDEfix has installed for me?

I don't know the dates. Check the version number.

V40 -> unpatched Kickstart version
V43 -> version of OS 3.5 or 3.9
V116 or higher -> IDEfix

Realising that you got an IDEfix Express, I am not sure how much software support it needs. Whether the IDEfix software is needed or not. If it is needed make sure that scsi.device is version 116 or higher and not 43 or below.

Or should I enter my harddrive details manually?

You cannot force the HDD being big. If you enter values which are larger than what the driver can see, it will not work. You should first make sure that the updated driver is active. An indication that it is not active is that HDToolbox shows you exactly 16383 cylinders, 16 heads and 63 sectors. That's the maximum scsi.device V40 can see.

If HDToolbox shows bigger values but still not the entire 120 GB, you should consider to enter the values manually. Or use FixHDDSize, that's easier and safer. Nothing to do with lazyness, sorry for that.

Or should I install OS4 instead?

If OS 4 boots from floppy/CD, you can use MediaToolbox to install the HDD. But when booting OS 3.9 after that, you still have the problem that the driver to see the entire capacity needs to be made active.

BTW, does it work with WB 3.1 + IDEfix ? But the same applies here: you first have to install / run IDEfix, then you can install the HDD with its full capacity.

[rvo_nl]

Hey Thomas, thanks for replying. You seem to know a lot about this matter, so I hope you can find time for some more answers. Ofcourse, if someone else can help me out, please do.

The OS3.9 emergency disk never worked for me, it hangs after displaying 'invalid resident.library'. I used your answers in another thread to no avail. I've got the 68040/060 (Ive got the ppc installed now) libs on disk aswell as the correct workbench.library. I dont understand how this would have changed my case though, would it have made HDToolBox display the correct disksize?

After that you mentioned scsi.device and HDtoolbox will never use/see more than 8GB. Then how come your (rather excellent) tool fixhddsize does exactly that? HDToolBox now shows the full 120GB. Is it now safe to partition/format/change filesystem? Can I only use quick format?

From what I've read/know, IDE-Fix Express does not come with its own scsi.device, but patches it 'on-the-fly'. That is quite clever, but I wonder why I should put SKIPROMUPDATES "scsi.device" in the startup-sequence. Now my scsi.device is V40, dated 1993. Shouldnt I use the one from OS3.9 ROM Update?

I will post my questions about SFS in another thread, as it has nothing to do with the 8GB/IDEfix issues mentioned here.

[rvo_nl]

Hi Thomas, seems you replied to my previous answer that I promptly deleted after I found out your fixhddsize tool did recognise the entire harddrive. And ofcourse, I already posted my shorter reply before reading your answer.. Doh!

Anyway, in short:

1) fixhddsize made hdtoolbox display the correct size. should I now partition, install sfs, and format, or should I do this after fixing issue #2:

2) it seems I dont have the correct scsi.device active. the one from ide-fix is not loaded, the one from os3.9 is disabled in startup-sequence.

BTW, I've had wb3.0 running for 2 minutes, I installed OS3.9 straight away. hdtoolbox only showed 8GB though.

You can ignore my reply above, since you already answered most of it.

[Thomas]

2) it seems I dont have the correct scsi.device active. the one from ide-fix is not loaded, the one from os3.9 is disabled in startup-sequence.

Please try if Check4GB shows the correct version number. It seems that IDEfix does not fully change the version information when it patches scsi.device on the fly.

1) fixhddsize made hdtoolbox display the correct size. should I now partition, install sfs, and format, or should I do this after fixing issue #2:

I'd say #2 is not really an issue. If it allows to access the entire disk, then it should be ok.

[rvo_nl]

Alright, then I made the right decision. I made sure scsi.device v119 was loaded, then repartitioned the harddrive and installed SFS. Im still not sure how and which partitions will be visible under what OS, but I will see. Im now installing OS4 first, just because it will be my main OS and because I was getting fed up with 3.9

Do you think its wise to format all partitions fully? I mean, without using quick format?

[zipper]

Do you think its wise to format all partitions fully? I mean, without using quick format?

Mostly not, just quick format.

[rvo_nl]

even if I dont know whats been on the disk before? its a second hand drive. could have been windows, mac, linux, amiga.. also, if I cant format it, is it safe to fill them up with files? :|

[trilobyte]

The OS3.9 emergency disk never worked for me, it hangs after displaying 'invalid resident.library'. I used your answers in another thread to no avail. I've got the 68040/060 (Ive got the ppc installed now) libs on disk aswell as the correct workbench.library. I dont understand how this would have changed my case though, would it have made HDToolBox display the correct disksize?

You can't use OS 3.9 with Kickstart 3.0 ROMs.

See the last item here: http://www.gregdonner.org/os39faq/installtips.html

Upgrade your ROMs (to 3.1) and try again.

- t