Question about Apple Mac and PeeCee

[tone007]

AmigaOS 4.1 is better than OS X.

[save2600]

@koshman: Is it nonsense that I have made a career out of replacing, upgrading or repairing garbage 3rd party components from PeeCee's for a great chunk of my life? Nope. Unlike a MayTag repairman, glad to have WinTel boxes to work on! They're just not welcome in my home. Completely assembled and functional that is  ;-)  Which brings me to another point: you know how many Dell, Packard Bell, Gateway, Compaq, HP, etc. users literally 'give' me computers or parts of their computers for free? Modern equipment too. You nary see this phenomenon with Mac people so often. Actually, only time I get Mac stuff for free or next to free is when a school or business decides to upgrade and their accountants have written off their old electronics. And in relation to the original posters question: Mac products have a much better resale value than PC. Always have. Always will. Long live the IBM compatible platform. Without it, there'd be *that* many more Americans unemployed  ;-)

[save2600]

AmigaOS 4.1 is better than OS X.

I'll drink to that. Then again, I'll drink to just about anything. lol  About an OS being "better", my only qualification to that is the software it'll run. When it comes to the Amiga, I'm not an Adobe or Apple snob for the sake of being a snob. If current Amiga apps were as functional as say the iLife suite was, I'd have no problem switching platforms and steering away from thinking of the SAM/AROS/MorphOS/AOS4.x systems as little more than hobbyist computers.

Personally, I'd love to ditch my Mac's for Amiga, but I'd need comparable performance and that just ain't happening yet. And the thing that sucks about investments, is how much stuff you have tied up into these things. Knowledge too. Like a photographer, tough to change bodies when you have all these other lenses. Having said that, I'm a Pentax guy that has been kinda stuck for a while. Would like to go Canon or Nikon, but. one of these days  

[tone007]

You nary see this phenomenon with Mac people so often.

That's because the Mac-heads paid way too much for their hardware to consider giving it away, and most likely invested other ridiculous sums of money having it serviced or upgraded at the Apple store.  I wonder what percentage of them are crying because they can't run the newest OS on their pampered old hardware, and now they can't get anything for it in resale.

[koshman]

save2600: Does anything what you said contradict with what I said? I don't think so. Sure, the problem is that with the wide range of components, many of them low quality, clueless consumers can make a mess of it (often do...). I can feel your pain, I have had my share of it over the years, too. Still, it's not like you can blame the platform for it.
I like Macs, I really do. I just think that most of their advantages are byproducts of the lower penetration (no viruses) and proprietary hardware (stability, compatibility etc.). Their ability to design UIs and market the computers is unrivalled. I wish I were wealthy enough to afford an Amiga, PC and a Mac at the same time :lol:

Edit: and yes, Macs age better, they still look nice even when they are old and obsolete - eg. the original clamshell iBooks

Btw, the Eric Schwartz video is awesome!!! I haven't seen it before.

[save2600]

@Koshman: Well, when you asked if me thinking that many more PC components fail is nonsense - yes, there was contradiction there because I can blame the platform. Architecture of Mac does not foster end users to fiddle with their computers nearly as much as PC users. Not that that's a valid argument anyway because one might argue that the average Mac users is 'smarter' or more technologically savvy than the average PC user (which is always going to end up in a numbers game and Tone007, before you flame this comment, think about ALL of the clueless computer people buying up those $400 complete HP systems at Wal-Mart and then them taking said computers to Best Buy or their local PC shop where they too get gouged on service). Which is a sentiment that I would happen share since I personally know that_many_more savvy Mac people than I do PC (and before someone takes this out of context, I also know a good handful of brilliant, not just with computers, but super-smart PC owners - lol). But... back to people fiddling with their computers that aren't qualified... if a PC user was happy with their system the way it was (they hardly ever are and thus begins the circle of installing a new program, adding a new card, etc), the fat fingered human factor would hardly apply as they wouldn't have put themselves in that position in the first place had they bought Mac.

And yes Tone007 - I agree that service costs on a Mac *are* or can be expensive. I know someone that needed their mobo replaced on a Powerbook once. Cost him $800+. Too bad he didn't have Applecare. lol  I don't believe in extended warranties myself - BUT... this is where it becomes a numbers game and both sides can show themselves in a positive light.

[save2600]

AmigaOS 4.1 is better than OS X.

That's because the Mac-heads paid way too much for their hardware to consider giving it away, and most likely invested other ridiculous sums of money having it serviced or upgraded at the Apple store.  I wonder what percentage of them are crying because they can't run the newest OS on their pampered old hardware, and now they can't get anything for it in resale.

I can't speak for all Mac users, but I've learned the hard way that constantly upgrading your OS is BS and unnecessary. That trend is something Apple learned from their marketing division having watched all the "suckas" constantly upgrading Windoze with those incessant service paks.  lol   And I can't stand Leopard at all. Sure, it might be fine for the Intel based processors, but I used it for a little bit on my G5 and it felt too bloated for my tastes. An no, have absolutely no desire to upgrade my computer because it doesn't run a less efficient OS happily.

I do know a LOT of Mac users though and none of them are crying over Leopard. Most know from research and other users (we're a close knit bunch) that it doesn't always make sense to upgrade. I'd say that earlier versions of OSX on older platforms are infinitely more useable, stable and reliable than previous and comparable incarnations of Windows running on frankenPC's.

[tone007]

That trend is something Apple learned from their marketing division having watched all the "suckas" constantly upgrading Windoze with those incessant service paks.

Kind of different, as the service packs are free, and as for incessant, there were 3 service packs for Windows XP over its 9 year lifespan.

I'd say that earlier versions of OSX on older platforms are infinitely more useable, stable and reliable than previous and comparable incarnations of Windows running on frankenPC's.

A copy of Windows XP from 2001 can be service-packed and patched right up to current, for free, while a copy of OSX from 2001 will have a hard time finding software to run, and will require you to spend money to upgrade it.  Believe me, I've played with enough old versions of OSX to realize after a certain point the old versions just really aren't viable.  Thankfully, it's also very easy to pirate, so I've never had to pay for a newer copy.

[save2600]

I will defer to your expertise here about the servicepacks Tone... as a user, I gave up on the WinTel platform shortly after the Win2000/WinME debacle. Still professionally sold PC's compatibles by the time XP came out, but I wasn't convinced. And neither were most of our customers as many a machine came back.

[B00tDisk]

AFAIK, Apple still designs the mobo's - just utilize the Intel chip. Component wise, I'd like to think that my Apple hardware is superior.

*snrk*

One thing people often fail to realize with a Mac purchase is all the great software you get with it.

Double *snrk*

[cynkronyze]

Wow now thats a debate....but if I ask you this - mobo for mobo, OS for OS, processor for processor, with same challenging benchmark tests run on both systems (the mac & peecee) which one would come out trumps.....

Cynk

[amigakid]

Apple designs own mobos but still use mostly PC parts like CPU, RAM, Graphics chipsets ect.  Basically you pay a bunch for an OS.  The Mac OS is in my opinion not any the bit better than windows 7.  I have used both for years and am a professional IT person.  The mac OS isn't anymore secure than windows and actually in certain areas has more holes in it, thing is that with only 5% of the market no one really cares to make viruses, worms, malware ect for them.   I have a new Toshiba Laptop i bought for $500 that has a 16"HD lcd screen, DVD Multi Recorder with label flash, wifi, and all the other bells and whistles, you'll never find an Apple laptop new with specs anywhere near that for any where near the price.  Also the H/W like graphics chipsets they use are a little dated in terms of whats available.  The Mac is a good computer, but think twice before spending the dough.  Also all this that you get what you pay for when they listed the top laptops for not having issues and lasting beyond the traditional three year mark Toshiba and Asus made the top mark with only about a 14% failure rating, and yeah Macs didn't rank in the bottom but they also weren't on the top.  So $500 for a laptop that has gotten high marks for lastability, quality and performance  with a 16" screen and more or $1300 for a laptop that also gets high marks (not as high tho) and only 13" screen, smaller KB and older H/W specs.  Just my 2 cents!!!

[drHirudo]

I disagree.

I went all Mac for one year and it worked, but I still preferred Windows so I sold the Powerbook G4 while it was still worth something.  I have a couple of Macs lying around still, but only because I got them for next to nothing.  I'd never buy a new Mac again.

As for the hardware, the Intel machines have alot of hardware identical to what's being sold in PCs, but they aren't generic boards.

I also purchased PowerBook G4. For the period I own it, it turns out that the laptop is switched off sometimes even for weeks, while I use my Amiga on daily basis. The Mac OS X is just not attractive to me, but may be this is because I used Amiga for more than 15 years almost everyday. Hardware wise, Macs are expensive, so if I go for new non Amiga based computer, it will be Windows compatible PC, not Mac OS X compatible PC (Apple).

[koshman]

@ amigakid: a little OT, but personally I would (and do) prefer 13" over 16" screen in a laptop.

@ drHirudo: luckily basically any PC sold today with non-exotic hardware is compatible with both Win and MacOSX (unoficially, of course). Although MacOSX on non Apple certified HW kind of beats the purpose - good drivers, compatibility etc.

[Hammer]

AFAIK, Apple still designs the mobo's - just utilize the Intel chip. Component wise, I'd like to think that my Apple hardware is superior. And after a couple of decades of using just about every brand computer made - sure seems like it. My experience has shown that surely Apple products are better built than the generic AMD/WinTel mobo for PeeCee's.

One thing people often fail to realize with a Mac purchase is all the great software you get with it. Whether you want to believe you're paying for an innovative looking case design or not, can't escape the reality of the bundled software. The entire iLife suite is amazing and actually, I personally do not need anything fancier for writing a letter, editing a photo, cataloging my record or game collections, making a movie, storing my music, etc. Wouldn't trade *any* of that for *anything* made for a PeeCee. Mac's work and they work extremely well. Once you bite into the apple so to speak, you'll never go back to all the hassles that come with PeeCee ownership.

http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/44709-apple-laptops-less-reliable-than-asus-toshiba-sony

Via statistics, reliability rankings with 1 with lowest malfunction rates.
1. ASUS (Taiwan)
2. Toshiba (Japan)
3. Sony (Japan)
4. Apple (USA)
5. Dell (USA)
6. Lenovo (China)
7. Acer (Taiwan)
8. Gateway (USA).
9. HP(USA)

American PC vendors nearly mirroring their Detroit auto makers.

[amiga1260]

After Commodore had disappeared, I considered to buy a Mac, but instead I bought a PC.

Apple makes beautiful designs, but the price is very high for the configuration you can get. For the same amount money you can get a faster PC configuration, more features and more possibility to upgrade your hardware. Even other manufactures building whole PC's en notebooks also have beautiful designs.