Project Timberwolf - Firefox for AmigaOS4.1

[takemehomegrandma]

for legal reasons it cannot be called Firefox

What legal reasons exactly? It's called Firefox on all the other platforms, yes? Is it because they don't want to contribute back their own complete sources to this *open source* project?

Are you kidding me? Clean code, OS3/OS4/MOS compatibility, and a split of bounty funds proportional to individuals' effort involved are "unrealistic terms"? Is it really so unreasonable to have a single bounty for Mozilla on the Amiga? Even an OS4-only version of AmiZilla is still worth ~$2500.

As a good gesture, AmiZilla should transfer $2500 to the new bounty for this browser.

Absolutely not, that would be outright criminal! The AmiZilla bounty clearly constitutes the goal of *including all Amiga flavors*, in the *true spirit* of open source. This is what people donated their money to, and to use *that* money for something else, something like "we are using these open sources developed by so many people for so many years to create something that will be *exclusive* to us, and you can't have access to it" would be fraudulent. That's not why people donated money to the AmiZilla bounty. Make it *a true* open source project instead of searching for legal loop holes, and they can have *the whole* AmiZilla bounty for all I care. That's the spirit of open source, and that's the spirit of the AmiZilla bounty. But it's exactly this they consider "unrealistic terms", this whole open source thing. I see no "good gesture" about this project at all...

With parts of the source staying closed?

Here is a wild guess: Everything needed to build the open source Firefox browser on an Amiga platform?

[adolescent]

@takemehomegrandma

They cannot sell it if it is called Firefox.

If you want to sell the product, you may do so, but you must call that product by another name—one unrelated to Mozilla or any of the Mozilla Marks (see the sections on "Modifications" and "Related Software" below).

http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html

[Hans_]

Sorry to bring down the mood, but...


Are you kidding me? Clean code, OS3/OS4/MOS compatibility, and a split of bounty funds proportional to individuals' effort involved are "unrealistic terms"? If there's one thing we Amigans are great at, it's wasting resources on duplicate efforts. Is it really so unreasonable to have a single bounty for Mozilla on the Amiga? Even an OS4-only version of AmiZilla is still worth ~$2500.

The Amizilla bounty has been around for years, and no cross-platform group has made a proper attempt at getting it working. Considering that the initial port to any Amiga compatible platform would be ~99% of the work, do you think that it's fair that the initial porters get just 25% of the bounty? I certainly don't, and take it that the Friedens don't either. I also don't see waiting for someone else to do all of the hard work, and then doing a quickie port to your favourite platform (and claiming 25% of the bounty for little effort) as real cooperation.

I also think that having to port to 68k Amigas is not worth it, they're too slow and don't have enough memory to use something as big as Firefox.

Hans

[Hans_]

What legal reasons exactly? It's called Firefox on all the other platforms, yes? Is it because they don't want to contribute back their own complete sources to this *open source* project?

Actually no, Debian also contains a version of Firefox that's called IceWeasel for legal reasons, and that's an open-source project. Something about all modifications having to be approved by the Mozilla Foundation (including those necessary for porting).

Now a quick word about *open source*; not all open source licenses are GPL, and if the license says that the code can be used in closed-source projects, then the code can be used in closed-source projects (provided that all requirements are met). The MPL license clearly says that the code can be used together with closed-source files, so that means that they clearly have the original author's permission to do so.

Hans

[cicero790]

We aros suckers sail the world wide internet ocean on our mighty Santy OWB and we take no prisoners. Stay clear. :lol:  Just wished it scrolled a little better. But  soon hopefully.

The whole thing makes me very glad. Its 2009 and AmigaOS and its hardware is on the market and a new browser galore is on the way. That's staying power.

Congratulations to the whole Amiga world for this.

When Google presents its new OS and the turmoil that may come of this could be an opening  for the NG Amiga OS's.

[takemehomegrandma]

Considering that the initial port to any Amiga compatible platform would be ~99% of the work, do you think that it's fair that the initial porters get just 25% of the bounty?

No, and that's not what "a split of bounty funds proportional to individuals' effort" means, is it?

Now a quick word about *open source*; ... ...  The MPL license clearly says ... ... yada yada ...

Nowhere did I claim that they were doing something illegal or violating any licenses.

[Hans_]

No, and that's not what "a split of bounty funds proportional to individuals' effort" means, is it?

The Amizilla bounty also states that a port to only one of the target platforms will only get 25% of the bounty. If someone in the team that did this said port did 70% of the work, then they would get 70% of that 25%.

Nowhere did I claim that they were doing something illegal or violating any licenses.

What you said suggested that you still feel that what they're doing is wrong, despite the Mozilla foundation - who wrote the original code - having given them permission (via the license).

Hans

[zylesea]

The Amizilla bounty has been around for years, and no cross-platform group has made a proper attempt at getting it working. Considering that the initial port to any Amiga compatible platform would be ~99% of the work, do you think that it's fair that the initial porters get just 25% of the bounty?

If it is about 99% of the work and they leave out the 1 % to provide compiles for all Amiga flavours - then I would say own mistake. Either it is 99% then thy were pretty stupid to not provide the last percent to grab the whole cake or it may well be that it isn't 99%. Your math seems kind of wrong.

[PulsatingQuasar]

What the f**k are you all complaining about? It's their spare time and they are going to do it the way they want it. So they chose to go another route. You can complain all you want but it's not going to change anything.


I think the Amizilla bounty should be cancelled since it has taken too long to produce anything. People who donated should get their money back or an option to transfer the money to another bounty. That is for me the whole reason why I don't stick any money in bounties. There is no deadline. I have no problem with a donation after the software has appeared. Did that for both OWB and Netsurf.

[takemehomegrandma]

The Amizilla bounty also states that a port to only one of the target platforms will only get 25% of the bounty. If someone in the team that did this said port did 70% of the work, then they would get 70% of that 25%.

What you said suggested that you still feel that what they're doing is wrong, despite the Mozilla foundation - who wrote the original code - having given them permission (via the license).

I replied to someone suggesting that AmiZilla money, raised for porting Mozilla to the Amiga platform with an *inclusive* philosophy (*no* Amiga flavor is excluded) in *the best open source spirit* (sources are completely open, anyone can contribute, future ports, updates, and maintenance can easily and forever be done by anyone, etc, etc), to a bounty with a proclaimed *exclusive* philosophy (the entire Amiga platform *but* OS4 is excluded) in *the worst open source spirit* (carefully reading all licenses to close and lock down as much as you are possibly allowed to). The Friedens can do whatever they want, and I'm sure they have read all the licenses (I haven't, and I won't). But transferring money from AmiZilla bounty to this one would *not* be a right thing to do. The two bounties are not only incompatible, they are in fact the very opposite to each other. They could easily have qualified for 100% of the AmiZilla bounty, but they choose a different way.

[takemehomegrandma]

If it is about 99% of the work and they leave out the 1 % to provide compiles for all Amiga flavours - then I would say own mistake. Either it is 99% then thy were pretty stupid to not provide the last percent to grab the whole cake or it may well be that it isn't 99%. Your math seems kind of wrong.

That's exactly what I'm saying. And if they didn't want to touch MorphOS, AROS, or AmigaOS 3.x themselves, they could easily have handed that 1% of the work/bounty to someone else. "Team AmiZilla/Timberwolf/whaterver" - Does 100% of the work, delivering a browser to 100% of the Amiga flavors, getting 100% of the bounty money. Not doing this is not because of "unrealistic terms", but because of internal decisions. Fine, they are perfectly free to make their own decisions. But *don't* touch the AmiZilla bounty for this!

(I doubt however, that the Friedens will ever reach much further than 1% of the work anyway, but that's a different matter)

[TheMagicM]

(I doubt however, that the Friedens will ever reach much further than 1% of the work anyway, but that's a different matter)

I wouldn't under estimate them two.        them boys can code.

[ajlwalker]

This is the first time I have logged into the site since it was re-done, congratulations and thanks for all the hard work to those involved.

However, it is just the very bitching and complaining on this thread that has stopped me viewing this site every day.

Those that think they are supporting the "community" (that is a laugh!) by complaining that this port is not for all Amiga flavours, are simply not doing what they think.

This is FANTASTIC news and should be encouraged.  Even if the Friedens effort doesn't make it onto AROS, it will still bring some users to AROS.  Anything that raises the profile of "Amiga" and this surely will, is good for all Amiga flavours.

The point still stands, all the source code is there and if people really want it for their platform of choice then do something about it!  If you are short sighted enough not to see the benefits to all from this, then just drive on and keep your bitching and amateur legal skills to yourself.

It is your attitudes that are driving people away from the platform.  Just think about that for a bit!

[danwood]

To be honest, the whole idea of Firefox on OS4 excited the heck out of me when it was first suggested many years ago.

Today not so much, I don't even use Firefox on my PC or Mac anymore, its all about Webkit these days, and lets not forget we already have a brilliant Webkit browser in the form of OWB (and netsurf, but that's never worked on my machine for some reason).  Firefox is slow, bloated, and uses up a ton of resources.  Safari and Chrome and other webkit browsers out perform it by a huge margin.

For a while we were getting weekly updates to OWB, but now there haven't been any for 4 months or so, I'm praying he hasn't given up work on it.  It still lacks a few things, a download manager being the most obvious.

I think we're better off putting our efforts into OWB and making it more usable, its almost thee.  If Joerg (I believe his name is, excuse me if I got it wrong) hasn't got the time to work on OWB now, maybe he could open the source so others can expand on it.

Firefox would have been great 4/5 years ago, but these days I say Webkit is a much better option.

[PulsatingQuasar]

Not getting updates for 4 months doesn't mean he has stopped working on it. He could be busy with something else or he could be in the process of some major updates. DvPlayer and MPLayer for OS 4 don't get regular updates either.

[jj]

People can do what they like.  Just because they want to go their own way they shouldn't be slated for it.
 
Some people really need to get a grip on the situation.

Despite the fact that even the most powerful 68k amiga( bar winuae) would struggle to run firefox so personally I think the orginal bounty was pie in the sky. (And yes htis is my opnion and not fact)