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Offline Rodney

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #59 from previous page: November 04, 2003, 09:32:44 AM »
The thing is, you just cant group all Windows owners into that category. Also, most windows users are novices and dont know any and dont what to know anything about computing... They just want it to work. And it should. You should NOT have to endlessly tweek, remove components, edit config scripts, install programs to make windows faster, to get it working at a resonable rate.

If your comparing windows to Amiga. DONT! Windows has more features in its little finger than AmigaOS4 shall. No im not flamming. Im saying that, its a complicated peice of software, and it may not have been written or designed some people want.


also, i've been a windows users. I've tweeked it, edited stuf and its running a lot faster. Its always been stable. But the fact is, i was able to do it because i've been using computers for years. My mother is still afraid of the mouse. Computers should work. You should havnt have to configure a home computer, because thats exactly what its supposed to be... a HOME computer. Made for the HOME!!

Please be more specific in your postings. Not ALL windows users are experts and not all can tweek their system.
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Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2003, 10:37:09 AM »
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The thing is, you just cant group all Windows owners into that category.

I agree, hence subject line!
 

Offline DonnyEMU

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2003, 10:40:12 AM »
What amazes me most about the anti-windows folks here is they are mostly complaining about Windows 98, which hasn't been a current windows product for Five years now. Upgrade your hardware and software, it's a different world today folks..

Get with the ball game folks, Windows 98 and ME are built-on MS-DOS but windows XP is built on windows NT (and is the next generation of NT).

It has a full multi-tasking kernal with much more memory protection and virtual protection than DOS/Windows ever did..

You can't have a perfect "it just works" with any thing you throw at it ever computer. Same goes for Apple Macintosh OS X etc.

Windows works and intel hardware works, but you have to take a little time to get training and knowledge on how to support your own useage like any system.

Windows considering it has to work with "EVERYTHING" in the world that Microsoft doesn't even make themselves does a good job. Microsoft provides hardware driver certification for every product that Windows works with.

Windows is more complex than an Amiga but it also has a lot more responsibilities, there are things I can't do on an Amiga that I can do on a PC and vice versa..

Also Windows is supported and a heck of a lot more hardware integrated than Linux is, and at least i can walk to a store and buy a piece of software and it runs out of box. I also don't have to compile a device driver to make it work either (or not work as I find more common with Linux, or it's missing some major feature because the info isn't available to the open source community).

Learn your OS or call tech support before complaining and if you "roll your own hardware" do you really expect the same support as a Dell or Gateway could be..

I would also make a comment about XP, yes it takes a while to boot up from a cold boot.. Suspend and resume works great for me and saves where I was.. All modern PCs support that (which is close to instant ON as you can get).

Windows users used to complain about how fast the windows desktop would appear. To answer that criticism Microsoft shows you the desktop, while it still takes a while to load after you see that or can access the desktop. Get over it, or use hibernate/suspend/resume (they work great)..

For users that don't understand the differences between win98/ME and Windows 2000 and XP, 98/ME contains partial 16bit support making things like VXDs (Virtual device drivers) necessary. There is such a performance jump because 2000 and above is completely 32bit..


As for the VXD comment.. Why anyone would wanna throttle down a device driver on NT/2000/XP by requiring it to work with 16-bit code is beyond me (VXDs were used in a lot of older VGA cards crappy drivers).. You have to draw the line and go to a more high performance system at some point and get a real multi-tasking kernal that isn't loaded from DOS and removes the leash being put on performance..
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Offline Paul_Gadd

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2003, 11:51:38 AM »
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or use hibernate/suspend/resume (they work great)..


Hibernate is imo a fantastic feature in a OS, all operating systems should have something like that in it.
 

Offline PPCRulez

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2003, 05:26:37 PM »
Quote

A4000Bear wrote:
WinXP: Actually quite stable, but there is a really annoying habit where it boots up, then I have to wait a few minutes before I could launch an application. During this period, the hard drive is not being accessed. I was never able to find out why this was happening. Linux did not exhibit this behaviour.


This behaviour is really strange and has happened on my mothers laptop. Sometimes it just waits a minute or something, doing absolutely nothing (you can move the mouse etc but you can't launch applications). Sometimes it boots and starts without this delay and sometimes this happens.

Also regarding the statements that problems is the users fault is really ignorant statements.
 

Offline Mike_Amiga

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2003, 06:01:44 PM »
Quote
When I buy a car, I expect it to run with zero maintainance. If I have to spend every weekend fixing it or pushing it in the mornings, it's time to buy a new car. :)
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You'd need to tweak that analogy a bit to replicate the behaviour here. "When I buy a car, I expect it to run with zero maintenance. If however it does need maintenance, I'll choose to just whinge about it not working all the time, and not bother to do anything about it. Also, all cars from that manufacturer must also be defective in exactly the same fashion. It could not possibly by my fault in the slightest, or I never do anything wrong".


Further teaking required, cos cars have bit's that need routine maintainance, tyres, brake pads, bulbs, windscreen wipers etc... sorry if this is a)obvious and b)been pointed out by another person. :-D  :-)  :-P

*edit*

Yes, I'm aware certain things need replacing in the world of IT, printer cartridges are the main culprate, always running out of ink, and um... etc :hammer:
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Offline adz

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #65 on: November 05, 2003, 12:31:52 AM »
Quote

kolla wrote:
Learning Windows is a waste of time anyways, and neither interresting nor fun.


Ummm...waste of time? Open your eyes and look around you, more than 90% of the world rely on it, whether you like it or not, its a part of life. Microshaft isn't going anywhere for a while, so you might as well take the time to at least understand it.


@all

My current system has XP, my previous system had XP, the missus system has XP and my server is running 2K Server, not one of these computers has ever given me any OS related grief at all, the only example of XP that I had problems with was the beta release I got hold of when it first came out. The reason for this is simple, I, like mikeymike has said numerous times, took the time to configure them all properly. The only time I ever have problems with XP is when I try some crazy overclock, thats it.

Windows is like everything else in life, if you take the time to do it properly, you will be rewarded with reliability and performance.
 

Offline Cyberus

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2003, 12:35:01 AM »
I think what it often comes down to is the fact that people feel that, as this is an Amiga site, they have to jump on some bandwagon and slag off windows at every opportunity - almost in order to show some kind of loyalty to the cause.

Just like a bunch of teenage boys  :-D

(no offence intended, if any teenage boys are reading)
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Offline Tomas

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #67 on: November 05, 2003, 12:36:32 AM »
Quote
Also Windows is supported and a heck of a lot more hardware integrated than Linux is, and at least i can walk to a store and buy a piece of software and it runs out of box.

This is entirely the cause of microsofts monopoly... Hardware manufactors are only developing drivers for microsofts products.. Linux and other OSes has to live with drivers that are made by voluntarily people that only does it as a hobby.. there is a few exceptions though...
Quote
I would also make a comment about XP, yes it takes a while to boot up from a cold boot.. Suspend and resume works great for me and saves where I was.. All modern PCs support that (which is close to instant ON as you can get).

My laptop got a bsod when i woke it up from suspend mode in XP.. worked fine on both 2k and even linux!  :-D
Quote
Ummm...waste of time? Open your eyes and look around you, more than 90% of the world rely on it, whether you like it or not, its a part of life. Microshaft isn't going anywhere for a while, so you might as well take the time to at least understand it.

Why should he/she bother to learn Windows, when some other OS might do the same job better?

There is loads of better OSes around... Take for example BeOS... much smaller, more stable, no reboot needed, boots in less than 10secs and so on...

And why did microsoft with win3.1 be able to get such a big userbase, while os/2 lost its userbase? Win3.1 with its lack of multitasking, 16bit os hosted on dos.. while os/2 was 32bit and much more stable!! amazing... sure was not because of quality of the product..  sigh  :-(
 

Offline bhyman1

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2003, 02:15:56 AM »
mikeymike, I couldn't agree with you more.

A properly configured and constructed Intel/AMD pc runs windows wonderfully.

My box has been up for 12 days straight with no problems, and it would be longer it it weren't for it's scheduled cleaning and a power outage. Without those it would be close to 6 weeks!

:heart: for Windows, it let's me do what I want to do everyday with no problems. oh, and I like Bill Gates too  :-)
 

Offline bhyman1

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2003, 02:17:04 AM »
Quote
When I buy a car, I expect it to run with zero maintainance. If I have to spend every weekend fixing it or pushing it in the mornings, it's time to buy a new car. :)


what about an oil change? :roll:

how many cars do you buy every year?
 

Offline bhyman1

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2003, 02:19:58 AM »
oh, and to those who have complained about Windows in general, you are dillusional.

The problem is YOU. You are either impatient too

 learn someting new, or just plain ignorant.

[/thread]
 

Offline ronybeck

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2003, 02:32:41 AM »
Quote
I agree. I think it's a bit hypocritical of UN*X people to criticize Microsoft for dumping everything in the System folder. They do the same thing with the "bin" folder. If you're suddenly stuck having to edit your congig files by hand (and that will happen), digging through the "etc" can be a real pain, especially from a vanilla console that doesn't use color (unless you know how to turn it on). Everything is case sensitive, too. It took me a while to figure out why "xconfigurator" didn't work, but "XConfigurator" did. God, I hate that.



This should most likely read "I don't understand anything about the linux file structure so therefore I will say it is wrong and broken."

Sure it looks very scary to new users but does have structure to it!  For instances, as a general rule

/usr  - stuff used by no-admin users.
/etc - system configuration and some system files
/lib - suprisingly you find library files here ( amoung other things )
/bin - commands belonging to the system and accessable to all users
/sbin - commands only accessable to root and the system
/boot -  the kernel, ram files and other things needed for booting

Of coarse these break down again into, for example

/usr/bin - user accessable non-system related commands
/usr/lib - librarys needed by the above and other user stuff
/usr/src - source code for various programs.

Compare that with chucking everything into, say a System Folder, and windows looks very average indeed.

Quote
I know standard I/O and pipes are useful for programming, but this is the 21st century. Why are we still bumming around with Telnet-compatible B&W shells? I miss the old text user-interfaces (TUIs) used in MS-DOS. Navigating interfaces without a mouse ROCKS.


Yes.  Text consoles are there and a very important for remote administration.  I can tell that you have never tried to remotly admin a Windows machine over, say,  a 64K link. Compare it to administering a unix machine over that same link using telnet or more likely ssh.  Sending text is much faster than sending images of what is on the screen.  Not useful to home users maybe but essential to Server Admins, where linux is used heavily.  

The command line provides other powerful advantages that can not be replicated using a mouse.  For lack of a better example, consider having to go through 2389723 Directories and delete a file with aname containing certain string in the file name or of a specify size.  This can be done with one command which may only need to be executed once and complete with in a few minutes.  Do that with your DOS and mouse :-)  This is but one reason for still using them.

Quote
Also, there's so much stuff that just goes in the "etc" folder.


*sarcasm*Yes having configuration files located in one easy to find directory is a pain.  I think I would prefer to mix it in with the spooler, some exe files, bmp wallpapers in a windows directory.  Or perhaps we should make it all one file and call it a registry.  Then it ( 1 file ) can become corrupt and require you to install and entire system from scratch!*/sarcasm

Quote

If you're suddenly stuck having to edit your congig files by hand (and that will happen), digging through the "etc" can be a real pain, especially from a vanilla console that doesn't use color (unless you know how to turn it on).


All the linux distributions I have used have had a colour termnial windows, not that you need it to read text.  In gnome, a more popular desktop, you can change the colour scheme in the Edit menu.  It isn't as hard as you make out.

But if for what ever reason you can't read text unless it is in bright fantastic colours, I suggest WindowsXP for its some what vomit inducing colour scheme.
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Offline KennyR

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2003, 03:36:07 AM »
Quote
what about an oil change?


If I factored that into my analogy, a Windows system/car would need an oil change every three friggin' days.
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2003, 03:49:02 AM »
Quote

bhyman1 wrote:
oh, and to those who have complained about Windows in general, you are dillusional.

The problem is YOU. You are either impatient too

 learn someting new, or just plain ignorant.

[/thread]

So you mean everyone who dislike it is just plain stupid, just because you like it and have no problems with it?

I have had experience with microsoft products"OSes" since the dos days and all of them sucked compared to alternative OSes i have used through the time..

May i ask what OSes you have tried?

I think it is lame to call everyone who have a different opinion dillusionaled amatours... But oh well... you know better than everyone anyways...

I also find it funny how installing some software might destroy your whole XP install...not being able to boot even in safe mode with everything turned off.. I think that is pretty weak for a modern OS...
 

Offline Glaucus

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Re: A common attitude with Windows users here
« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2003, 04:37:50 AM »
Hey Mikey,

I know this isn't the right place for this, but since we're all here I might as well ask it now... Do you know of any way to have WinXP run some kind of script or batch file at bootup? Is there a startup file of some kind? If I want to have certain commands run at startup (like "delete c:\temp\*.*" at every logon), could I just create a batch file and stuff it into the registry under HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run\ ??? Just curious.

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