Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?  (Read 7611 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Plaz

Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2009, 01:13:16 AM »
Quote
 AROS is not Amiga inspired


Do you mean to say it wasn't "Amiga Inc." inspired? Certainly its inspired by the AmigaOS

Plaz
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2009, 01:14:32 AM »
Quote from: Plaz;519141
Do you mean to say it wasn't "Amiga Inc." inspired? Certainly its inspired by the AmigaOS

Plaz

No, I mean it is a clone. A bug for bug clone. If it were just "inspired", then you wouldn't clone the braindead single address space design for example.

Offline Plaz

Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2009, 01:22:06 AM »
Ah, I follow your meaning now.

Plaz
 

Offline kickstart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2006
  • Posts: 1057
    • Show only replies by kickstart
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2009, 01:35:55 AM »
Based on years of vapourware too, sadly.
a1200 060
 

Offline Golem!dk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2002
  • Posts: 414
    • Show only replies by Golem!dk
    • http://www.google.com/
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2009, 02:30:06 AM »
Quote from: bloodline;519123
Highlight the parts of my post you are having difficulty reading, and I will elaborate for you.

Ok.
Quote
Which would make sense given that it was all 68k asm.

No difficulty reading it, I just think someone may have fed you some BS, maybe you could tell us where you got this info from? A link perhaps, to some reliable source?
~
 

Offline NovaCoder

Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2009, 02:52:29 AM »
Quote from: terminator4;519131
Could you please refrain from making assumptions?  I do recall hearing that Amiga Inc has no source code.  And thats from unofficial contacts.  I could be wrong as this was 4 years ago.

OS4/4.1 is based indeed on source code from os3.1/3.9.  But it came from another source, not A Inc.


I head much the same thing, so what did happen to the 3.1 source code...it's it still on a couple of floppy disks in a dusty filing cabinets at Gateway?  Or did it (at least officially) get 'lost in the post' along the way after Commodore exploded?  Who actually owns it these days?

Our of interest.  How much of the 3.1 code was available to the 3.5 developers, I wonder if anything was missing that had to be re-done from scratch.
Life begins at 100 MIPS!


Nice Ports on AmiNet!
 

Offline mongo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 964
    • Show only replies by mongo
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2009, 03:33:20 AM »
Quote from: terminator4;519131

OS4/4.1 is based indeed on source code from os3.1/3.9.  But it came from another source, not A Inc.


It came from Olaf Barthel.

http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/26exhibit8show_case_doc.pdf
 

Offline Vanilla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 100
    • Show only replies by Vanilla
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2009, 03:34:01 AM »
Quote from: alx;519098
I wonder how much 3.5/3.9 code they did manage to re-use given all the legal issues with H&P; I know that Amidock is a completely new application, for example, but I'm guessing they somehow managed to get the code for things like ReAction...


A few things are are missing. Arexx is 68K, and likely to remain that way since they only had a license to the 68K source code, and can only go as far as debugging that same source code.  Hyperion brought Python in, but it just doesn't look as easy as AmigaDOS and Arexx scripts. Not  to matter, as even if Arexx gets bumped off, programs can still support Arexx ports and commands. Since it is just a standard message port and messages in Arexx format; just a "string in a structure" really, so easily kept going.

The Installer was lost, although they have made their own for certain things; thus the OS4 installer can't be used to install OS3.9 programs that make use of it's multimedia or other features for instance.

The Printer modules were lost. They had to spend time reimplementing features there and not all were put in. So the OS4 printer.device is not perfectly backwards compatible to the OS3.9 one .

I thought Palette used to be 68k, it's now native. IIRC it had some screen colour bug. It's still not right, as it looks dated and has no colour wheel? :-?  Perhaps that was the sacrifice for becoming native.

There there is Unarc, some decompressors are 68k.

The Shell. Well I never liked the ones used to replace it in the past. And always thought they should just bite the bullet and get the sources to KingCON. Well now I guess it's too late and the Shell we have is slightly better than what we had in OS3 and 100 times better than what you get in WindowsXP!

From my above descriptions it would look like AmigaOS4 is a big mess! I would have liked a more cleaner rebirth to the Amiga, but it was pulled apart after Commodore already broken it. so this is what we ended up with. It still here at least. :-)
Welcome Vanilla. To your continuing tour of duty. :-)
 :angel:
 

Offline Vanilla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 100
    • Show only replies by Vanilla
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2009, 03:42:04 AM »
Quote from: bloodline;519106
Don't comment on things you don't understand. AROS is not Amiga inspired, it is an AmigaOS clone. You imply that AROS is a modern kernel, made to look like AmigaOS it isn't. Bear in mind that MorphOS used AROS code, and there has been quite a bit of code sharing between the projects.


I understand all right. There may have been no reverse engineering, but it's obvious AROS uses the AmigaOS include files to recontruct it in portable C. Now if that isn't some serious inspiration I don't know what is!
Welcome Vanilla. To your continuing tour of duty. :-)
 :angel:
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2009, 08:38:44 AM »
Quote from: Vanilla;519171
I understand all right. There may have been no reverse engineering, but it's obvious AROS uses the AmigaOS include files to recontruct it in portable C. Now if that isn't some serious inspiration I don't know what is!


AROS doesn't use the AmigaOS includes, they are copyrighted... Come on keep up, you are showing your ignorance here. And, AROS is reversed engineered, and using the publically available docs.

Offline jj

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 4052
  • Country: wales
  • Thanked: 2 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by jj
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2009, 12:51:51 PM »
Quote from: Methuselas;519107
Funny, JJ, but I thought that was what's coming out of your arse! =D

 
 
?????????????????
« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 12:58:57 PM by JJ »
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw

Xbox Live: S0ulA55a551n2
 
Registered MorphsOS 3.13 user on Powerbook G4 15"
 

Offline Vanilla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 100
    • Show only replies by Vanilla
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2009, 03:24:16 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;519193
AROS doesn't use the AmigaOS includes, they are copyrighted... Come on keep up, you are showing your ignorance here.


Then where does it get all its structures from? You say AROS is a clone, but if it is a clone then it needs AmigaOS includes to be one. If it  doesn't use AmigaOS includes then we are stuck. Where do the AROS system includes come from?

Quote
And, AROS is reversed engineered, and using the publically available docs.


So you mean to say that the writers examined 68k disassemblies to see what the code does and convert that to C? If so that's not much better than using copyrighted files as your basis.

I thought it would have been easier for them if they used the AmigaOS include files and autodocs as their basis. Reimplementing all the core functions themselves by needessly reinventing the wheel and writing code to mirror the Amiga API behavour.
Welcome Vanilla. To your continuing tour of duty. :-)
 :angel:
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show only replies by Piru
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2009, 03:52:58 PM »
Quote from: Vanilla;519234
So you mean to say that the writers examined 68k disassemblies to see what the code does and convert that to C?
Yes, exactly.
Quote
If so that's not much better than using copyrighted files as your basis.
Legally there is a difference. If you don't believe me, consult a copyright lawyer.
 

Offline Vanilla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 100
    • Show only replies by Vanilla
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2009, 05:14:54 PM »
Quote from: Piru;519239
Yes, exactly.


:-O

Quote
Legally there is a difference. If you don't believe me, consult a copyright lawyer.


I thought reverse engineering would be worse. What's more, I thought the basic system structures would be copied, since if you want to compile Amiga C programs you need those same systtem structures anyway.

I thought AROS would be done just reading docs and public structures and recreating it. Well that seemed the clean approach to me, if you don't want legacy issues, and a better framework for forward moving features.
Welcome Vanilla. To your continuing tour of duty. :-)
 :angel:
 

Offline tone007

Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2009, 05:28:29 PM »
Quote from: Vanilla;519250
I thought..
 .. I thought ..
I thought ..


That whole "imagination rules the world" thing isn't always true.
3 Commodore file cabinets, 2 Commodore USB turntables, 1 AmigaWorld beer mug
Alienware M14x i7 laptop running AmigaForever
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What is AMiga OS 4.1 based on?
« Reply #29 from previous page: August 14, 2009, 06:33:59 PM »
Quote from: Vanilla;519250
:-O



I thought reverse engineering would be worse. What's more, I thought the basic system structures would be copied, since if you want to compile Amiga C programs you need those same systtem structures anyway.


All system structures are copied, otherwise AmigaOS software wouldn't compile. But they must be written from scratch by someone not involved with the original OS.

Quote

I thought AROS would be done just reading docs and public structures and recreating it. Well that seemed the clean approach to me, if you don't want legacy issues, and a better framework for forward moving features.


AROS is a bug for bug clone to ensure as much software compatibility as possible.

AmigaOS design does not make any distinction between the Operating system and the User space, so you have to copy the system design right down to a fundamental level to get any sort of compatibility with existing software.

AROS copies the AmigaOS totally and suffers the same legacy issues that plague the original... though a lot of work has been done to try and mitigate them.

I feel the MorphOS team had the right idea to use a microkernel and then run an Amiga flavour (Like AROS hosted) on top.

That said I am an AROS guy, I like to run my OSes on cheap x86/x86-64 hardware.