real amiga vs winuae

[amigaksi]

What kind of misinformed drivel is this? Of course the_leander is perfectly correct to say you need the library if you are using a 68040/68060. After several dozen recoverable alerts during booting I just about managed to get into workbench, just, before a fatal error took it down again.

Don't believe me? See attached. Now, if you don't mind, I'll re-enable my 68040.library so that I can actually get the thing booted.

What's the matter can't make up your mind?  In post #1191 in the other thread you stated you can boot up without the library and now after your sidekick corrected himself/herself you changed your mind.  You may be driving him/her crazy.

I don't get any alerts in booting up my applications.  Perhaps, you used something that actually uses FPU/MMU rather than 68000 application.

[amigaksi]

Oh here and there.

Am uploading them as and when I find an opening to use them

I taught a few kindergarten kids to upload silly pictures recently.

[amigaksi]

Notice the fatal error in the middle shot? That's right, an unhandled line F exception, which if you knew anything at all about 680x0 you'd recognise as an unimplemented instruction exception.

Directly compatible, my erse. You want to use an 040 or 060? You need the library, unless rebooting your machine is your favourite hobby.

Your experiment is a failure because you aren't testing for compatibility.

As far as being compatible, here another link for you proving I'm not alone in this world running code on 680x0 originally written for 68000:

http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/522/68040.php

[amigaksi]

Karlos has covered this better then I. Getting an 040 system to boot without that lib is a pain and leaves the system fatally undermined.
...

Okay, so you didn't have to serve as the sidekick.  I can read his writing as well.  I believe they are both English although you have problems with some words like biased and objectivity.

>Not unbootable, but far from your picture of no issues.

Go read what I actually said before you reply.

>Yes, and how many of them are have more then a laundry list of capabilities? It does not in any way cover specifics. Moreover - you demanded that Karlos look at the Motorola manuals, he has, have you?

It's easier to search online then read through the manuals again.  But definitely I remember reading object code compatibility.

>Given your "proof" for everything else you've said thus far, this should be a blast.

I will only state one and see if you are emotional sane enough to acknowledge it.  The very first point about joysticks you said my data was "utter rubbish".  If that's not a biased look at the data, then I can't even argue with you anymore.

>PROTIP: You saying it repeatedly does not make it so.

Nope, I will go one at a time with your biased views.  Let's see how you treat the first one.

>Because those points have been shot down so thoroughly that it isn't funny any more. >That you choose not to acknowledge that is proof of your fanaticism.

I stated CLEARLY all of my software boots up fine without the library.  What's the fanaticism?  I also quoted links.

Keep your insults to yourself.  As soon as somene replies (right or wrong) you think my views are thoroughly shot down.  Get a brain for yourself and stop being a sidekick.  You can easily get mislead with blind leading the blind.

[Linde]

Your experiment is a failure because you aren't testing for compatibility.

How so? He was booting his system without the library and it crashed due to software/hardware incompatibilities. What part exactly do you fail to understand about it?

While I agree with you that using a real Amiga is superior to using an emulator so far when it comes to old hardware dependent applications, I understand that it's a personal opinion, not a fact, and arguing that the 68040 is backwards compatible with the 68000 or 68020 is just silly, because it just isn't (from looking at the instruction set differences) and practically, in many cases it doesn't work.

Thankfully there are people who patch games and create libraries to make up for the incompatibilities, and claiming that their work is for nothing is quite disrespectful in my opinion.

Telling us that your setup boots fine doesn't really prove anything else but that; your system boots fine. Anecdotal evidence based on your particular setup doesn't hold water when it comes to proving your point.

[Karlos]

Your experiment is a failure because you aren't testing for compatibility.

As far as being compatible, here another link for you proving I'm not alone in this world running code on 680x0 originally written for 68000:

http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/522/68040.php

OMG, what planet are you on? I tested compatibility using my Operating System. That is the single most important piece of software I have for the system and the one I use more than any other software.

You don't need to test much other software because without the OS it was designed to run on you probably aren't going to it working in the first place.

Not being able to boot the OS that will run on the 68020 even, simply because the 68040.library is temporarily disabled more than adequatly demonstrates that the 68K series does not do complete hardware backwards compatibility. The 68K series requires software support for full backwards compatibility. This is a simple fact and nothing you can say changes this.

[the_leander]

I can read his writing as well.

Clearly you didn't, because otherwise you would have stopped embarrassing yourself.

problems with some words like biased and objectivity.

On the contrary, I along with the rest of the english speaking world have a clear understanding of what those words mean. You however have shown repeatedly that you do not.

Go read what I actually said before you reply.

I did, you stated that there was no need whatsoever for software emulation on the 68k series - thus proving its superiority to the x86 which you slammed for needing software emulation to provide 16bit compatability.

This has been demonstrated to be false.

It's easier to search online then read through the manuals again.  But definitely I remember reading object code compatibility.

And again, we have someone here who has shown that what you claim is not so. We have the manuals that explain in ball aching detail as to why you are wrong and multiple users of this side giving verifiable facts as to where those incompatabilities lay. And you've ignored it all.

Easier? I've no doubt. It also stops you from having to face reality too...

and see if you are emotional sane enough to acknowledge it.

Ah, so, if someone disagrees with you, not only are they "biased" "lacking objectivity" but are now also insane and or emotionally unstable?

And you wonder where people get the idea that you're a fanatic?

The very first point about joysticks you said my data was "utter rubbish".  

It is utter rubbish for the reasons already explained to you. You have been given a way of testing with 100% certainty one way or the other as to whether or not your claims hold water. Rather then carry out those tests, you have continued to repeat the claims without the evidence to back it up.

biased

Disagreeing with you!=bias

I can't even argue with you anymore.

And yet here you are, continuing to...

your biased views.

Disagreeing with you and presenting information to back up the opposing case!= bias.

I stated CLEARLY all of my software boots up fine without the library.  What's the fanaticism?  I also quoted links.

Anecdotal, which has already been destroyed by the demonstration given by Karlos.

thop wiv bu intholts!!

Ah, your ride has arrived:

As soon as somene replies (right or wrong) you think my views are thoroughly shot down.

Err, no. You see, everyone who has countered your claims has backed up their points with evidence. You have provided... some anecdotal evidence, a lot of unverified claims, a website that is pretty much just a brochure and well, not much else really. You've been given ample opportunties to retest your hypothesis using a valid, viable method. Tbh I think it's clear at this point that the reason you haven't is because you realise your claim is flawed but cognitive dissonance denies you the ability to back down now.

[Methuselas]

Tbh I think it's clear at this point that the reason you haven't is because you realise your claim is flawed but cognitive dissonance denies you the ability to back down now.

 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
:roflmao:

[the_leander]

I taught a few kindergarten kids to upload silly pictures recently.

Pithy.

[smerf]

Okay, so you didn't have to serve as the sidekick.  I can read his writing as well.  I believe they are both English although you have problems with some words like biased and objectivity.

>Not unbootable, but far from your picture of no issues.

Go read what I actually said before you reply.

>Yes, and how many of them are have more then a laundry list of capabilities? It does not in any way cover specifics. Moreover - you demanded that Karlos look at the Motorola manuals, he has, have you?

It's easier to search online then read through the manuals again.  But definitely I remember reading object code compatibility.

>Given your "proof" for everything else you've said thus far, this should be a blast.

I will only state one and see if you are emotional sane enough to acknowledge it.  The very first point about joysticks you said my data was "utter rubbish".  If that's not a biased look at the data, then I can't even argue with you anymore.

>PROTIP: You saying it repeatedly does not make it so.

Nope, I will go one at a time with your biased views.  Let's see how you treat the first one.

>Because those points have been shot down so thoroughly that it isn't funny any more. >That you choose not to acknowledge that is proof of your fanaticism.

I stated CLEARLY all of my software boots up fine without the library.  What's the fanaticism?  I also quoted links.

Keep your insults to yourself.  As soon as somene replies (right or wrong) you think my views are thoroughly shot down.  Get a brain for yourself and stop being a sidekick.  You can easily get mislead with blind leading the blind.

Hi,

@amigaksi,

Well I guess I shouldn't say this, but you are wrong again, wrong, wrong, wrong, I have an Amiga 4000 040 25 mhz system, If I do not enable the 040 library, my 040 runs like a snail, it will still run, but it runs slowly, it also has a problem with some programs due to what they call the 040 bug which the 040 library works around, if I remember right it is due to a bug using the mov instruction in coding, this was not relevent in the earlier 68000 series but due to this bug in the 040 cpu, the 040 processor would sometimes crash, or lock up causing freeze ups or crashes in some programs. This was pointer out in the magazines Amazing Amiga, and Amiga world (remember them). When the 040 first came out programmers were warned to avoid the mov instruction and to use Commodores work around, later on some Einstein programmer made the 040 library that brought some relief to this bug.

I wish I still had my magazines, so I could tell you the dates of which issue (issues) to read on this bug. Also today when I run my Amiga Forever Emulator, it really outshines my Amiga 4000, with Amikit installed it looks really modern and functions quite well, I have run Pen Pal, Soliton, Crazy 8's, Space Taxi, etc. on it. ADoom really flies full screen at 1280 X 1020 and sometimes I wish I could slow it down, Pen Pal runs excellent as long as I take the data icon and move it onto the Pen Pal icon, other wise it won't load up, I still haven't figured out why, but it still is useable when I do this, Eagle Player works quite well, and the sound is fantastic, mp3's play great, but playing video is still well iffy, in other words I can't do it unless I register the frog, otherwise I get about 30 seconds of play. I also get to use my SATA drives, USB, and DVD dual layer burner. So now I turn on my Amiga 4000 on just about twice a week to transfer data from my AF emulator to the Amga 4000 (remember AF still runs under Winblows so transferring my data is important, the Emulator will go fits up with a winblows crash.

Why do I put up with winblows because it is the only OS that the modern day games are made for, and that is all I use it for, I also use Linux, which holds my video, music and now my software databases. Linux has not crashed on me for the last 3 years or since I started using Ubuntu. I have tried all the other big Linux OS's but I like Ubuntu the best. It is made the best and is the easiest to use especially for an idiot like me. I have never tried using an apple computer because I HATE APPLE and THEIR FANBOYS, I shudder at all the users of rotten core computers, my apple this, and my apple that, Amiga huh, didn't that piece of junk die years ago, and I am a PC and I am a MAC. It is all B_S.

smerf

[ElPolloDiabl]

@the leander

OMG I laughed for a good 5 minutes before I could type this.

WHA wha WHA wha WHA wha! LOL!

[smerf]

Hi,

@amigaksi,

>> Originally Posted by amigaksi  View Post
As soon as somene replies (right or wrong) you think my views are thoroughly shot down.
===============================================================

No, they were shot down before you posted, now lets talk about the Amiga joystick, yes it is fast because it moves mathematically by counting pixels, which makes it extremely fast moving on screens. Now when you move it in most games which are using the 320 X 200 graphics mode, thats 320 pixels wide by 200 pixels vertical, it is extremely quick causing most programmers to put delays in the movement. Now you take todays modern graphics cards which are 2500 X 1600 pixels would cause joystick movement to move much slower since it has more pixels to calculate for depending on where the programmer has put the zero reference point.

If I am wrong please advise.

smerf

[koaftder]

Okay, so you didn't have to serve as the sidekick.  
I will only state one and see if you are emotional sane enough to acknowledge it.  The very first point about joysticks you said my data was "utter rubbish".  If that's not a biased look at the data, then I can't even argue with you anymore.

I wouldn't call your data rubbish. I'm from the southern United States, the closest I can call it is, "crap" and not violate the site rules. You ran a task on the machine that polled the port while a game was running. This guarantees the timing is completely inaccurate. But who knows right? You weren't even clear about whether this data came from sampling an atari or an amiga. Who cares though, you have less than 1ms state changes in your data. That's physically impossible from a biomechanic perspective. You measure signal bounce from the superior joy port hanging off a Denise chip who's input pins tie directly to mechanical switches.

[jkirk]

I will only state one and see if you are emotional sane enough to acknowledge it. The very first point about joysticks you said my data was "utter rubbish". If that's not a biased look at the data, then I can't even argue with you anymore.

no it is not bias if there is a logical reason it is not valid. the thing is you were given instructions on how to redo the test to make the data valid. you ignored that and are still assuming that you are the only one that is right. that to me IS bias.

[amigaksi]

How so? He was booting his system without the library and it crashed due to software/hardware incompatibilities. What part exactly do you fail to understand about it?

While I agree with you that using a real Amiga is superior to using an emulator so far when it comes to old hardware dependent applications, I understand that it's a personal opinion, not a fact, and arguing that the 68040 is backwards compatible with the 68000 or 68020 is just silly, because it just isn't (from looking at the instruction set differences) and practically, in many cases it doesn't work.

Thankfully there are people who patch games and create libraries to make up for the incompatibilities, and claiming that their work is for nothing is quite disrespectful in my opinion.

Telling us that your setup boots fine doesn't really prove anything else but that; your system boots fine. Anecdotal evidence based on your particular setup doesn't hold water when it comes to proving your point.

I already agreed there are minor differences like you can find between 80486 and 8088 running 8088 code on 80486.  So if his OS that he runs was meant for a 68020 or higher system, his experiment is a failure.  You have to test for 68000 compatibility using 68000-pure code.  And a lame excuse like SR/CCR won't be enough to declare 68020 incompatible with 68000.

[amigaksi]

no it is not bias if there is a logical reason it is not valid. the thing is you were given instructions on how to redo the test to make the data valid. you ignored that and are still assuming that you are the only one that is right. that to me IS bias.

And I have logical reasons why you can have data that requires millisecond response which is SUPERIOR to billions of experiments.

You are biased.  You can't see the logic for example in someone pressing a fire button that's a millisecond apart from him turning the joystick.  It can happen.  That's all you have to acknowledge.  People who can't do that after many times stating the reasons and not even refuting the logic are biased.