Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Announces C64 Forever  (Read 4069 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mcbTopic starter

  • Lifetime Member
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2005
  • Posts: 70
    • Show only replies by mcb
    • https://mike.pub
Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Announces C64 Forever
« on: September 03, 2008, 02:30:43 AM »


Cloanto released this week Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", the latest version of the award-winning Amiga preservation, emulation and support suite for Windows and other platforms, and a first batch of 10 games in the new RP2 format. Both the RP2 update and the new games are a free download for current users.

Amiga Forever 2008, the most significant release in the Amiga Forever series, already set new references in usability while more than tripling the featured content and providing easy access to a universe of free downloads. The "RP2" update (from RetroPlatform Player, the technology used by Amiga Forever) adds support for the new RP2 file format and content delivery, recognition and configuration framework.

RP2 is a simple and standards-compliant wrapper format, essentially a ZIP archive containing one or more disk image files and an XML manifest. Full information is being shared with download sites and other partners. Does the emulation world really need a new format? Well, RP2 does not aim to replace the existing disk image files: there will always be ADFs, etc. Cloanto's project involving automatic identification of disk images and automatic configuration of the emulation system also remains ongoing, and will soon flow into RP2. The new format aims to solve another aspect, i.e. how to easily download, organize and play sets of multiple disks, and treat each game as a single file, just as users do with MP3s. Today, ZIP archives can be downloaded from games sites, but they still won't play automatically. ADFs might do that (with Amiga Forever they already do), but this wouldn't work with games that need more than one disk image. That's where RP2 aims to deliver, making playback of an .rp2 Amiga game file as simple as playing an .mp3 music file: one file, one game, nothing else to remember or configure. And users will be free to rename or reorganize the files, while existing investment in Amiga disk images will be preserved by means of automated conversion options.

Amiga Forever is still far from perfect, and we know that. Thanks to the precious support of our customers, we keep working on other fronts, which include:

- Merge the current heuristic configuration logic with the autoconfiguration library
- Make it possible to create, edit and share configurations
- Make it easier to add or remove content from the player lists (Games, Demos, etc.)
- Improve online search
- New partnerships

The RetroPlatform player and content framework were designed from the beginning to be modular and platform-neutral. The Amiga alone, while full of memories and passion, remains a risky "niche" for a software house. In order to achieve better stability and growth potential for the project as a whole, we decided to support a second platform which we all love and know well from our past. This means that Amiga Forever will soon get a little 8-bit brother (or sister), to be named C64 Forever. More information will be released soon at www.c64forever.com.

Your Amiga Forever Team
 

Offline leirbag28

Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 01:22:07 PM »
Good Stuff!

Wow! imagine that!  C64 Forever! what a great idea!  get it to work on the iPod! :-)
CD32 is actually the best Amiga ever made by Commodore!...
 

Offline Starrfoxx

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Posts: 78
    • Show only replies by Starrfoxx
    • http://kurzann.proboards23.com
Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 02:51:16 PM »
I have an old version of Amiga Forever, but I would love to get this new version.  Plus, I'm excited about C64 Forever.  Although I have a great emulator now for it, I know that the team will make an incredible new version for us.  Sweet times ahead.
 

Offline Ilwrath

Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 02:54:09 PM »
Very cool.... Great idea saving the configuration data in an XML archived with the disk image.  Well done.  So simple and clean, someone SHOULD have thought of it before.  (But as far as I know, no one did.)  Thanks, again, Cloanto!  (And I look forward to C64 Forever!)
 

Offline yakumo9275

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 301
    • Show only replies by yakumo9275
    • http://mega-tokyo.com/blog
Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 07:43:55 PM »
somebody did think of it before.. its called java.. you know the jar file (renamed zip file) with manifest (configuration file). thats all this rp2 junk is, a renamed zip file with configuration file....

looking in the example files they provide.. there are no settings in the xml file, ie: it doesnt say aga, 2mb ram, foo bar baz etc. nothing. so nothing of value-add here yet. so basically serves no purpose...

the xml schema they reference in the configuration file (as per xml spec) is not even available at the specified url.
--/\\-[ Stu ]-/\\--
Commodore 128DCR, JiffyDOS, Ultimate 1541 II, uIEC/SD, CBM 1902A  Monitor
 

Offline Amiduffer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2005
  • Posts: 1601
    • Show only replies by Amiduffer
    • http://www.geocities.com/laverdiereaf/
Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 08:36:09 PM »
Just got mine yesterday! Thanks Software Hut. Can't wait to install it tonight.
Amiga 3000D UP and running! Hear that clicking. 8)
Amiga 3000D & 4000D in storage sadly.
 

Offline Ilwrath

Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 09:01:09 PM »
Quote
somebody did think of it before.. its called java.. you know the jar file (renamed zip file) with manifest (configuration file). thats all this rp2 junk is, a renamed zip file with configuration file....


Well, I guess so...  I never really thought of a emulator disk image as a precompiled VM byte-code block before, but yeah, it kinda is, in a somewhat abstract way.  

Quote
looking in the example files they provide.. there are no settings in the xml file, ie: it doesnt say aga, 2mb ram, foo bar baz etc. nothing. so nothing of value-add here yet. so basically serves no purpose...

the xml schema they reference in the configuration file (as per xml spec) is not even available at the specified url.


Well, that's a bit of a problem.  I'll admit I didn't examine the schema, yet.  I just read the article and said "Cool!"  :lol:  ... and if they do it right, it will be.
 

Offline yakumo9275

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 301
    • Show only replies by yakumo9275
    • http://mega-tokyo.com/blog
Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2008, 12:01:28 AM »
Quote
Well, I guess so... I never really thought of a emulator disk image as a precompiled VM byte-code block before, but yeah, it kinda is, in a somewhat abstract way.


Well a JAR file is just a container (zip file), same as RP2.

and yeah if they get it working it should be pretty cool, as long as they use it to provide hints to the emulator configuration etc. I'll reserve judgement until the schema and real examples come forth.

They have a lot of disk images to go through ;)
--/\\-[ Stu ]-/\\--
Commodore 128DCR, JiffyDOS, Ultimate 1541 II, uIEC/SD, CBM 1902A  Monitor
 

Offline JoePillow

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 10
    • Show only replies by JoePillow
Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2008, 06:26:38 AM »
Quote
somebody did think of it before.. its called java.. you know the jar file (renamed zip file) with manifest (configuration file). thats all this rp2 junk is, a renamed zip file with configuration file....


You obviously did not read the article. Cloanto itself provided credits and links to previous work in this field, including the W3C.

Quote
there are no settings in the xml file, ie: it doesnt say aga, 2mb ram, foo bar baz etc. nothing. so nothing of value-add here yet. so basically serves no purpose...


Again the article explains this too. And the 10 sample games just work, no further config required.

Just think about it: if you add the configuration inside the file, you have to start versioning the file (configurations tend to be improved over time, whereas the game pool is static), it's a lot of work, for the user it's like having MP3 files that need to be updated every few months. It wouldn't have worked.

I would call a file that is simple to maintain and run more than "no purpose"... :-) Or can you do that with any other format?
 

Offline yakumo9275

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 301
    • Show only replies by yakumo9275
    • http://mega-tokyo.com/blog
Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2008, 12:35:38 PM »
Quote
Just think about it: if you add the configuration inside the file, you have to start versioning the file


if you look at the xml files, you will see that they are versioned already.

so if the current example files just work, because there is nothing in the config file, then whats the point of the config file? nothing.

the biggest issue I see is that its closing the gate after the cow has already left the paddock. disk images exist in the multitudes all over the net. its a bit late to come up with a new configuration file and format to go along with them.

I dont honestly see the point, most amiga software is what, ecs or aga compatible. The c64 doesnt really have any such conflicting configurations, disk images are just that.

It just appears too little too late, or they are trying to do a 'value add' that isnt really value in order to push the next version of AmigaForever because in all reality apart from advances in winuae, their product is static and winuae is free.
--/\\-[ Stu ]-/\\--
Commodore 128DCR, JiffyDOS, Ultimate 1541 II, uIEC/SD, CBM 1902A  Monitor
 

Offline mcbTopic starter

  • Lifetime Member
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2005
  • Posts: 70
    • Show only replies by mcb
    • https://mike.pub
Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2008, 04:29:31 AM »
Quote
if you look at the xml files, you will see that they are versioned already.


Thank you for your feedback, it's always appreciated. Maybe I can clarify this a little bit on the technical side.

If you take PDF, today its success is often taken for granted, not last because of the weight of the company behind it. But from the beginning, they had a handful of short rules, like "everything should be streamable", etc., and even if you read them now, they are enlightening, for how long ago they were put on paper, and for the foresight they showed.

Of course, RP2 is no PDF and no MP3, but it has a few rules as well. And it has a broader context, an architecture if you allow me to use such an "important" word, where things are meant to fit together. We have worked on XML data to describe configurations for a long time now, and the temptation indeed existed to put such data inside an RP2 file.

If you have Amiga Forever installed, you can see a sample of this XML in paths like "C:\ProgramData\Cloanto\RetroPlatform\Amiga Forever\Catalog" (on Vista). The XML you see there is cross-emulator, i.e. we have a DLL that takes that and converts it to WinUAE configuration data and interactive commands, for example. In spite of that, every now and then we know that we have to add a tag or property, etc., or someone tells us that a configuration has a problem at some point in the game. Or there are new features and possibilities, for example for the dynamic removal of overscan borders, to autodetect copy protection/password requests, etc. Now, how likely is an Amiga game disk to change? Very unlikely, if we look at the existing disk sets. And how likely would configuration changes be? Much more likely, looking back at the evolution of emulators, and the refinements we apply ourselves to the configurations. I am sure this also applies to other users, who have hundreds of carefully-crafted .uae files. The .uae files change much more frequently than the game disks, which remain as released (other than changes during game play, which we can isolate).

Because of this, and also given the number of existing games (as you may know we already cataloged more than 10000) and the compact size required to store the identification "handprints" and the configurations for all existing games, and the likelihood of changes to this data, we opted to separate the game from the configuration. Until you see how many games there are, and how much data this consumes, whether you can reliably identify disks that are almost the same but not quite, whether it's all practical or not, etc., it's hard to decide. But he have the data, we did the homework, so we know how to make it work. This gives long life to RP2 files, and long-time optimal configuration, at a negligible cost. We have shown with 10 games that it works, and we are ready to show it on 10thousand games, making it even simpler and more powerful in the process, also adding tools for people to manage their own images and configuration data. So the value will be in the extra data and tools, and no, we are not trying to reinvent the wheel of game images, for these existing files, on servers or on PCs, will be very easy to rewrap, but wrapping them in RP2 is only part of the goal towards easier playability. And ultimately, it will be up to users to decide whether the sum of this will be worth it or not.

The two version fields you saw inside the RP2 manifest are not a version of the game data (or demo, etc.) This would make the file open to the possible changes which are against the choice of simplicity and long-term stability which I tried to outline here. To the contrary, the two versions are there to make the files even more usable (without changes) in the long term, as well as backwards (with old players), for they indicate two minimum required versions, one for a player, and one for an identification mechanism (handprinting library).

Whether this is all wrong, or "too little too late", time will tell. But for now it's fun :-)

Mike
 

Offline mcbTopic starter

  • Lifetime Member
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2005
  • Posts: 70
    • Show only replies by mcb
    • https://mike.pub
Re: Cloanto Releases Amiga Forever 2008 "RP2", Ann
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 03:57:50 PM »
Here is an update on the topic.

Amiga Forever 2009.2 and C64 Forever 2009.2, which include the new RetroPlatform 2.2 components, were released today.

They include support for a now-extended "Open RP9" format. Without compromising on the previous design goals, it was possible to extend the XML manifest to include user-editable description and configuration details. If user-edited, these are marked as such, together with the base version. This makes it possible to tell the difference between new and old, edited and non-edited, and act accordingly. This should give us the best of both worlds: the ability to automatically rescan files and make them better, not worse, and the ability to freely edit files if necessary.

The XML schema has not yet been updated (might take a few days), but the 2009.2 update already went live. Format documentation will be released at retroplatform.com. We are working with several developers who are eager to support the format.

Mike