Plea from Aweb team, developers needed !

[GadgetMaster]

We've been asking for help on porting KHTML for over a year now. I think litterally I've been asking for this about fifty times now, but no one ever reacts. Why?

Having worked closely with browser technologies for about five years now, I can tell you that IBrowse, AWeb and Voyager are incredibly far behind what other browsers can do. This is 1996-1997 standards. IBrowse doesn't even support HTML4!

We are not only missing CSS, but the Document Object Model, proper unicode handling, XML and Javascript 1.5. These are things that make up a minimum requirement Windows browser as of today. Opera, Firefox, Safari, Konqueror and partly IE fullfil these requirements. Working with modern standards, such as the DOM makes it completely impossible to support Amiga browsers.

This can only be solved properly by porting an existing open source HTML engine, where either KHTML or Gecko stand out. Upgrading an existing engine would take a huge effort, and that would IMHO be a huge waste.

I can of course not rant on people who are not developers (including myself), but I think it's remarkable that something that appears fairly trivial on other platforms is apparently nearly impossible to do with AmigaOS. Something that should not be like that with AmigaOS.

KHTML is based in KDE's konqueror browser, but has been ported to Safari and is part of Apple Webcore which is fully documented, open sourced and has a complete API for everyone to use.

And you know what?

- KHTML exists also for SkyOS, a one man created OS.
- KHTML exists now for GTK+ so it can be used in Gnome.
- There's a Win32 port on the way.

It's actually quite portable.

The way Apple Webcore is made is largely the same way KHTML should be ported to AmigaOS. It's highly documented.

We have at aweb.sunsite.dk:

- Complete plans for how to do this.
- A huge amount of documentation on Apple Webcore and KHTML
- CVS access should you require it
- A complete and working bug database
- Direct access to the original KHTML authors (David Faure, etc.) We are allowed to post Amiga specific questions on their 'kfm-devel' mailing list.
- A complete GCC platform for doing the port.

We need one or two dedicated guys who know how to handle GCC and know a bit about C/C++ to study it and do the port.

We expect this to take no longer than six months, if done properly.

After that we can start building kick ass browsers.

Regards,
Henrik Mikael Kristensen
AWeb Development Team

source:  AW Thread

[Tomas]

I also wonder why not more people are helping out to improve the allready avaliable browsers for amiga, instead of trying to do something nearly impossible like porting mozilla.

Would seem easier to just improve a open source browser like aweb, instead of fully porting a big browser like mozilla.

I am sadly not experienced with programming, so i cannot help at all.

[mr_a500]

Quote:
"I am sadly not experienced with programming, so i cannot help at all."

Sadly, I do have some programming experience, but totally unrelated to Amiga programming (no, not Windows programming either). I think many people just don't have the time to first learn GCC, then learn browser programming. Even if enough people start programming, it will still not be ready until mid-2005 and you probably need a super-fast Amiga or A1 to use it.

It is tragic, but I think the Amiga will finally "hit the wall" technologically in 2005. Besides the fact that more and more websites can't be displayed properly or accessed from AWeb/IBrowse, there are stupid new anti-SPAM measures have been blocking emails sent from YAM. Then there's the EXTREMELY annoying fact that everyone wants documents in Microsoft doc format and there's no Open Office-like equivalent on the Amiga. (of course, there's always the games...)

In 2005, I'll finally get a Mac and sadly pack away my old Amiga.

[Matt_H]

We've been asking for help on porting KHTML for over a year now. I think litterally I've been asking for this about fifty times now, but no one ever reacts. Why?

With respect, this is the first I've heard of a call for help. Sadly, my programming skills are near-useless, so I can't lend a hand. I wish you luck, though. Hopefully with more publicity some progress will be made.

[lionstorm]

I am like the others : complaining and waiting for someone to do the job, because I am not a programmer.
Magellan has been licensed yesterday, so why not another big project by Gurumed ?
And what about the amizilla project ?
Lio

[JetFireDX]

I can't program either! Can anybody program well around here? (I'm a BASIC kinda guy myself)

"- KHTML exists also for SkyOS, a one man created OS."

I don't think this is entirely correct...one man created the kernal and basic system, but I think they have a rather large team of people helping out now. So many things coming along in a short amount of time I highly doubt it's one man alone.

Plus, lets look at the possible user base of any Amiga browser...SkyOS runs on x86 hardware, nearly everybody can try it (0.4x release) or join in as a beta tester for the 0.5's. The only thing similar to this in Amiga-land is AROS and its not even close (Though I very much wish it was!!!) I just don't know if there is enough people who have a commanding knowledge of Amiga programming who are still active to help an undertaking like this, let alone have to do other things to bring other parts of the OS (any of the Amiga'ish OS's) up to "standard" around the browser.

[XDelusion]

I can't code or I'd help...

...I think the fact that they have been begging for help this long and have got none is a sure sign that the sceen is dead.
 An up to date web browser is a pretty IMPORTANT thing.

[Wilse]

I can only add my name to the list of non-programming well-wishers, I'm afraid.

"Hello World" is about my limit. :-/

[magnetic]

@Mr.500

Actually, thats not accurate. There IS a program that just came out for MorphOS called Papyrus

http://www.titan-computer.com/ami/papyrus/

They are also releasing an Amiga 68k version AFAIK

I was one of the beta testers and it DOES load and save .doc (M$ word files) and works pretty good...

@ The Aweb Team

Well, unfortunately most of the real talented coders left in the community are either working on one of the OS projects or are full time employed by other companies. However, there are still enthuisist developers working away. What about the infamous oGalaxyo?  

I full heartily agree with Tomas about wasting time talking about Amizilla - it was a noble effort by Bill P but really not feasable. Putting the money towards help for the Aweb guys sounds like a good plan. Its too bad that they couldnt combine forces with Oliver Wagner (vger) and the IB team.. if they all worked on 1 browser maybe the Amiga would have a shot..

magnetic

[gnarly]

I full heartily agree with Tomas about wasting time talking about Amizilla - it was a noble effort by Bill P but really not feasable.

You're right, porting Gecko is a huge project. But you're wrong about it being unfeasable. Big strides have been taken - just look at the recent activity on the mailing list - Jeff Shepherd is beavering away at it. NSPR (the underlying portability layer) nearly done. Once thats done, I believe the plan is to create a test version that uses an X server for its output. Then I believe that an Amiga native port of the widgets and GFX will commence.

KHTML is quite a big project too, and I would dearly love to see both of these engines on the Amiga. If only I could write a bit more than very simple PHP stuff :-(

[mr_a500]

@magnetic:
Quote:
"Actually, thats not accurate. There IS a program that just came out for MorphOS called Papyrus"

Yes, you're right. Thanks for the info. The minimum requirements are monsterous though (well..for me): 48MB RAM, graphics card, 68040 - and that's probably just to have it barely working. That is beyond what I consider "classic" Amiga. So I guess I mean "classic" (but accelerated) Amiga will finally hit the wall in 2005. Maybe the monster "franken-Amigas" with 128MB RAM, graphics cards and 75Mhz 060's or PPC will live for a year or two. (..if somebody helps with AWeb)

Quote:
"if they all worked on 1 browser maybe the Amiga would have a shot.."

Good point. I have thought of this myself over the years.

I wish people could just work on one Amiga OS! Some programs are written for 3.1+, some for 3.5/3.9 only, some only work on the new 4.0 and some only MorphOS!