AmiNetRadio 3.0 Released

[Brian Hoskins]

@AmiDelf:

I think it would be a whole lot easier to stop arguing about this kind of thing if there were less people like Kenny running his mouth off all the time.

That said, the less people we have in the Amiga community with that kind of sad attitude the better, so in my opinion he actually does the Amiga Community a favour by switching to MOS. Whether he is doing the MOS crowd a favour remains to be seen.

Personally I have no bad feelings towards MOS at all, I do understand what MOS was originally designed to accomplish (the survival of the Amiga platform) and I do completely understand the reason for the bitterness due to the whole AmigaInc V MOS affair, which in itself is quite sad.

Unfortunately though, due to this whole sad affair, MOS has been forced to re-invent itself as a new platform.  I will agree that it is Amiga-like to use, but there can only be one legitimate Amiga platform, and at the moment AmigaOS4 is it (if we're talking legitimate).  I would also agree that AmigaInc themselves have contributed diddly-squat to the new Amiga Operating System, that is also a sad affair, but the fact remains that AmigaOS4 IS the legitimate new Amiga Operating System and due to unfortunate circumstances, MOS has now had to invent itself as a "new" platform, seperate of the Amiga platform - even Genesi markets it as such.

I've no reason to argue with any MOS users, as far as I am concerned they're just Amiga users who went the MOS direction simply because they wanted to support what they assumed would be the next generation AmigaOS.  There's nothing WRONG with MOS, it's just a sad unfortunate situation which has created this bitterness, none of us can help it.  What I do take a distaste to is attitudes like that shown by KennyR.  As I said, if that is to be his attitude, then good ridance in my opinion - whatever platform he ends up moving to.

Just my two cents.

Brian

[takemehomegrandma]

@ BrianJHoskins

Nonsense! MorphOS was *the* upgrade path for *many* of us. Hyperion's OS4 is totally out of reach and has never been a real option for me, not because I don't think it's going to be a good OS (I am sure it will be just as good as MorphOS when they get everything in order), but simply because there is no way on this planet that I will buy a big, bulky, motherboard with the ArticiaS NorthBridge for EUR 800+! No sir! But I am fine with that, because even if I am sure about that Hyperion's OS4 will be a great OS, I really don't see what it will offer that MorphOS won't that will make me want to switch to that path? :-? :-?

[AmiDelf]

I don't really agree with you there BrianJHoskins.

AmigaOS4 is just another way to go. MorphOS is as much Amiga as AmigaOS4 is.

If Amiga was continuing going custom, this would be a whole different situation. I am supporting MorphOS now, because it is out.

AmigaOS4 is not at MorphOS level in several areas. This is sad. And yes, I agree with you that there is too much fuzz about this.

But to say, if we say that everyone is using AmigaOS. Wouldn't that be easier?

And AmigaOS4 or MorphOS would be like Dopus Magellan and ScalOS for this AmigaOS community?

Everyone likes different enviroments, but the same stability which AmigaOS actually gives. I will from now on going saying that both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS is AmigaOS for PPC whatever other says.

Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org

[KennyR]

And I have to say this, it's important. I'd have posted it on AmigaWorld where it's relevant but since they banned me for no reason I'll just say it here. They have a thread linked here anyway.

What is it that OS4 people actually want, can I ask? MOS users are told constantly that they've formed a new platform, and should go to that platform and stop pretending they're Amiga users. A clean divorce, right?

And yet, when we do, and take our software with us, we get called childish and vindictive? We get told that we're the ones trying to divide the community. WTF! What's the issue here? Do they really want us to push off but magically continue developing our software for the people who forced us out and view us as some kind of evil non-Amigan heretics?

And, Brian goes on at me for shooting my mouth off! OS4 people have done themselves absolutely no favours with their attitude for the past 3 years. ATC is currently being attacked because it has problems on OS4. "Fix ATC!" And yet it works on all other Amiga platforms. It wouldn't be long until ANR was getting the same treatment, if we kept up the difficult Amiga debugging, even if we could. We can compensate for old AmigaOS bugs and limitations. We can't compensate for new ones on beta prereleases we can't use.

In the end, we're not the ones who've been childish. Don't mistake this: the main reason that only MorphOS is supported now is almost totally practical. But there are minor poltical reasons that haven't helped. We've supported AOS for ages now, biting down anger at the abuse on certain websites that only allow one point of view. We've tried to accomodate other systems, often with zero support. We've tried to make ANR usable to people who think that we should just piss off and die or become another OS like Linux. We've come to the end of the road. Free software is free. We're now making it for us, and for our own path, because we can't do otherwise. Take it or leave it.

[Brian Hoskins]

That is an interesting way of looking at it.  Unfortunately though, AmigaOS4 wont run on a Pegasos and MOS wont run on an AmigaOne.  Hell, MOS wont even run on a PPC based classic Amiga, so whichever way you look at it, the two Operating Systems are severly seperated by this barrier alone.

Nobody wants to buy both systems (unless they're in a financial position to do so), and so the entire Amiga community is FORCED to choose between these two solutions.  As I mentioned before, I am not particularly against MOS - it's userbase is afterall a collection of Amiga Users who wanted nothing more than to see the success of the Amiga as a platform, and they believed (still believe) MOS was the answer.

The single, only reason I've not given MOS a fair chance to impress me is simply because it wont run on my PPC A1200.  I accept that the general direction is towards newer, more powerful computers for both the new Operating Systems, but because I can't afford to buy BOTH systems, I am forced to choose aren't I.  For that reason, you can't really look at the whole situation in your light unfortunately.

Regardless of what either of us say, or which Operating System is best; put all those things aside and the fact remains, AmigaOS4 IS the legitamate AmigaOS, and MOS is not.  That doesn't immediately translate to MOS being a lesser system, but it cannot be denied that the legitamate Amiga direction is OS4.

Now, as I said earlier, MOS wont run on my classic Amiga and I have already decided that I'd rather go the direction of OS4 which is for reasons of my own.  Unfortunately, I am unable to be impressed by MOS because it wont run in any form whatsoever on my classic A1200.  I can't afford to buy a Pegasos only to find out that no, I don't like MOS afterall and I certainly can't afford to buy both systems... so that's the difficult situation we're all finding ourselves in.

For sure, if one of the solutions was able to run on BOTH platforms (Pegasos and AmigaOne) then that would make life MUCH simpler and it would then be much easier to accept both solutions into the Amiga community.  Unfortunately, due to bickering on BOTH sides, this is not currently the case.

Brian

[Brian Hoskins]

@KennyR:

I did say in my reply to you that I didn't take any distaste to your decision to move your software to the MOS platform and not support AmigaOS.  What I took distaste to, as I have already explained, was your attitude.

You have a BAD attitude, and I don't like bad attitudes, same as most people don't.  If you're to continue with a bad attitude, then I for one am GLAD that you choose to leave the Amiga community, because I feel we need stinky attitudes in our community like we need an Ash tray on a Motorcycle.

Brian

[cecilia]

BrianJHoskins :
....but there can only be one legitimate Amiga platform, and at the moment AmigaOS4 is it (if we're talking legitimate).

I've NEVER understood this wacky idea!!!! "legitimate"? why? because some guy named BILL said so?

when are people going to stop listening to guys named Bill???

the reason there is such dissention in our community is because some of us spent WAY too much time believing and listening to heads of companies.

forget these morons.

The only legitimate Amiga is the computer I happen to be using. And I've still got my Amiga 2000, as well as my WinUAE that I use ALL THE TIME, as well as a pegasus. I am an artist and the artist is more important than the tools. All these variations of amiga are TOOLS. I love every single one of them. But they help me do WHATEVER I WANT TO DO.

and I don't give a rats' A55 what some dimwit company head has to say about it.

stop the nonsense and start working with each other to make any and all amiga variations better.

I like AmiNetRadio. I put it on my emulation (the last version), mostly to see if i could make some skins when I have some time. I can't use euph0ria on the emulation because it's not made for AmigaOS. but it works great on MOS. I fully admit (for those that don't know) that I have contributed to euph0ria (and wait until you see the next version!). I didn't have a heart attack because it didn't work on AmigaOS.

that's life. it happens. get over it.

software is "SOFT" because it can be changed. be greatful that we live in a time when we CAN change some things in our lives. even if it takes time.

[Brian Hoskins]

AmigaOS4 IS the legitimate direction purely because it is the only OS solution officially supported by the owners of the Amiga platform.  That is why I said that this fact cannot be disputed - it can't.

I did also mention that this fact didn't necessarily mean that AmigaOS4 was better than MOS or anything silly like that.  However, due to unfortunate circumstances which split the two solutions apart, I'm not able to try MOS at the moment.

Brian

[KennyR]

BrianJHoskins wrote:
You have a BAD attitude, and I don't like bad attitudes, same as most people don't. If you're to continue with a bad attitude, then I for one am GLAD that you choose to leave the Amiga community, because I feel we need stinky attitudes in our community like we need an Ash tray on a Motorcycle.

But I didn't leave the Amiga community. We just stopped actively supporting OS3.x.

[KennyR]

And now non-MorphOS users will be pleased to hear that a 68k version of ptplay.library has been compiled, and is tested and working. It will be available as part of an update soon available at the ANR site. It will enable ANR to play ProTracker and compatible modules.

The other libs use MorphOS extentions and can't be ported. vorbisfile is nothing to do with us and we can't simply make a 68k version of it.

Also note that the ANRNG GUI isn't corrupt on non-MOS systems (that was worked around), it just has no transparency due to missing features.

[amigamad]

why are people moaning about software that is free and works just because its not developed for use with classic amigas or amigaones in mind .people have the right to choose what platform they code for . :-)

[Tomas]

MorphOS is "the" AmigaOS for PPC now.

MorphOS is more AmigaOS than AmigaOS4?? What you just said, really made no sense at all..

I bet MorphOS is a nice OS, maybe just as nice as AmigaOS, i dont know.. But i really think you should strengthen the MorphOS brand, instead of claiming it is something it is not..

[Tomas]

why are people moaning about software that is free and works just because its not developed for use with classic amigas or amigaones in mind .people have the right to choose what platform they code for .

I think what pissed off most AmigaOS supporters, was the fact that it was used as a way to promote MorphOS in favor of AmigaOS. The press release hinted about how much better MorphOS is, and then telling people that they should "upgrade" to MorphOS..

[smithy]

I am pleased that some software authors have finally taken this standpoint.

Those people that have FUDed and slandered MOS (we all know who they are) are being shown that their actions have tangible consequences for their platform, OS4.

Perhaps they should retract their statements and offer a public apology, before other software authors become even more disenchanted with them and cause more damage to OS4.

[takemehomegrandma]

@ cecilia

"Legitimate" (aka "the name") is the only thing they have, the only thing that justifies insane investments and years of void. Some people obviously feel very strongly about this. There are few other arguments that would justify years of bitter wait and a small fortune put into aging, Articia based hardware. MorphOS has been available for a year and a half, it does everything one would expect from an Amiga (and more), on hardware that actually works and are quite affordable (even though it is more expensive than broad mainstream x86 hardware (but not *my* x86 hardware!;-)), "but ... but ... it doesn't have THE NAME, it's not 'legitimate'"! Well that, and the "but ... but ... it's not compiled from the original 3.1 sources" argument, which is an equal insane and artificial argument.

I whish that there would be a stop to all this "we are so much holier than you, we are the 'legitimate' ones" crap, it's only sooo annoying. We are all Amigans and have been so for very long. Please accept that people!

[gary_c]

AmigaOS4 IS the legitimate direction purely because it is the only OS solution officially supported by the owners of the Amiga platform. That is why I said that this fact cannot be disputed - it can't.

No, it can't be if you want to define "legitimate" that way. But in the real world this "legitimacy" has no value except to people such as yourself who want to give it value for sentimental or other personal reasons.

Here we have an example of people making practical choices based on the realities of the situation. What does it matter what the name is? People using MorphOS feel at home as they did with their older computers, and that reality is what counts, not some external idea of "legitimacy".

-- gary_c