Interview with KMOS CEO Garry Hare (25 Mar 04)

[vortexau]

 Wayne  Posted: 2004/3/29 3:12:23

:
Ah - but wasn't Wayne claiming it to be a 'genuine' card in ALL particulars rather then allowing for the possibility of it being an 'example' card?

No, but it's clearly convenient of your memory to think of it that way.

I apologize if my perception of the WHOLE afair has become settled on YOUR shoulders, Wayne, but YOU shouldn't blame me for accusations that others made!

I stated, from the beginning, that I personally did not know whether or not he was actually CEO of Amiga Inc, but that he did -- at least on one occassion present himself as such to the public. He did -- as publicly stated now -- hand out cards stating it as fact. It was, in fact, a "genuine card".

I was defending against those who slammed me for stating that the card was a real card (as opposed to the photoshopped {bleep} that certain people claimed). For this, I was called a liar and have had to put up with months of character assassination.

 . .. "it's clearly convenient of (MY) memory to think of it" as being presented as an unverified[/i] article!

@Wayne- Did YOU in fact seek verification that ALL of the details on that card were genuine before YOU posted of the 'affair' on this site? IOW, did YOU have Garry Hare's confirmation as to the card's contents?

The trouble is that there are some very impressionable folk (like bhoggett) who are inclined to believe any 'spin' presented to them.
(In fact, it seems like that very forum 'spin-meister' still believes that the CARD is, in all ways, quite genuine)

My "memory" has that my thoughts on that ocassion centered around the possibility that THAT card had been created in an office, and not in a regular production run at a printing establishment!

THAT was why I posted THIS,THIS, and THIS   image . . . Images that I created when I was enrolled in a business course and required to create a "business plan" for course credit!

I POSTed those images to show how things shouldn't  always be taken at face-value!  :-o
. . . . . . . . .
(NOTE- Quite nasty Edit by admin : below with misrepresented reasons!)

[System]

@Bill,

Yeah, I know, damned if I don't...

If anything, what I want EVERYONE here to understand with perfect clarity is this;

Things are not nearly as crystal clear as people are wanting to believe.  There is deception all around us, and I'm not talking about the paranoia aspect.  Here we have a situation that was blown completely out of proportion by the community (spearheaded by Bill Buck) which -- 1+ year later -- we're finally learning that the truth is actually somewhere in the middle.

Was it a real card?  Yes.

Was it valid? No.

Did he hand them out?  Yes.

Was he CEO of Amiga Inc?  No.

Did he have what could be considered a decent reason for handing them out?  Maybe.

etcetera....

So in the end, everyone is right, and everyone is wrong.  The only people who have "won" in this situation are those who haven't bothered to pay attention in the first place.

[DaveP]

My personal pet theory was that you had been sent something knocked up quickly in a business-card-u-quick booth in 10 minutes by bbrv.  :lol:

Turns out I wasn't far from the truth... except it was Garry Hare in the booth ....  :-o

[vortexau]

I've gone back over WHAT you said here, Wayne, and you claim that the Card is (in your words) "genuine", and you say:

but that he did -- at least on one occassion present himself as (CEO of Amiga Inc) to the public. He did -- as publicly stated now -- hand out cards stating it as fact. It was, in fact, a "genuine card".

whereas Garry Hare states:

In February, 2003, Bill McEwen asked if I would consider joining Amiga as Chairman and CEO. Ultimately I agreed, contingent on Amiga securing a minimum investment and operating capital
. . . I printed 25 business cards with the Amiga logo and my personal contact information.
. . I met with four companies where I know the senior management quite well and one where I did not.
. .  In every meeting I told people that I was considering joining the Company and proceeded with a business discussion.
. . I told David (Traub) I was considering joining Amiga. David asked how to reach me, I gave him a card. At the end of this conversation David said he was associated with Bill Buck . . .

At about the same time I ran into an old friend who publishes a well known gaming magazine. I mentioned I was thinking of joining Amiga and he asked if he could announce it if I did. I gave him a card and promised to call and send him a press release if and when, I joined. There was no such announcement.
(Mr. Buck) specifically knew that I had not taken the CEO position.

I'm really wondering how bhoggett can-
'still claim that the card is (in ALL ways) genuine'?
 and
'that the Card's presenter was misrepresenting himself, or using a false ID'?

How can a CARD run off by the individual be a quite genuine article, and be a false-ID, at the same time?

How can someone say that they're considering joining Amiga to a FEW select known individuals, and be afterwards described as present(ing) themselves to the public as CEO of Amiga Inc?

I think of the Public and certain individuals as quite different groupings.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
@bhoggett,
I used the term unverified, not false!

My AirCamCo Card Images DO exist, but I've never claimed that the information on those card designs is true information! There you are - I've just verified that (in fact) the information on THESE Cards is not genuine!  :lol:
......................................................................
and please recall that I said above:
"My "memory" has that my thoughts on that ocassion centered around the possibility that THAT card had been created in an office, and not in a regular production run at a printing establishment!"
and compare that to Gary's: "I printed 25 business cards . . ."!

HOW have I mis-represented the origin of that card?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(NOTE- Quite nasty Edit by admin : below where with he deteted it because he was shown to be name-calling,- making false accusations,- and revealed to be using faulty logic!)

[cecilia]

The only people who have "won" in this situation are those who haven't bothered to pay attention in the first place.

YEAH!!!! I WIN!!!!

 :elvis:  :banana:

When do I pick up my prize?

[bhoggett]

@vortexau

Boy, do you go for serious misquoting and misrepresentation to back up your claims!

I'm really wondering how bhoggett can-
'still claim that the card is (in ALL ways) genuine'?

It is 'genuine' in that it was handed out by Garry Hare. If the card did contain false information, then the person to blame is Hare and no one else.

'that the Card's presenter was misrepresenting himself, or using a false ID'?

Does the card say he is CEO of Amiga or not? Yes.

Was he CEO of Amiga? No.

Does the card therefore contain false information? Yes.

Did Garry Hare hand out this false information? Yes.

These are facts. We have verbal claims that he passed himself off as Amiga Inc CEO, and verbal claims that he told every recipient of the card that he was not CEO. Both claims are unverifiable.

What possible explanation is there for someone claiming that he is "considering joining Amiga" while at the same time handing out cards that proclaim him to be CEO already? Contrary to claims in this thread, that is not common behaviour.

You seem to want to blame everyone who took the cards as genuine for accepting them at face value, but at the same time want to completely absolve the person who handed out these cards which - according to his own testimony - contained false information.

As Wayne said, deception is everywhere. No one, not even Hare, can expect to have his claims taken as gospel.

I said this before and I'll say it again: if Bill Buck pulled this kind of stunt you'd be leading the lynching mob, and everyone who is still absolving Hare of blame would be following you howling for blood.

[bhoggett]

@cecilia

Your prize consists of not being flamed.   :-D

Prize it greatly for it is a rare gift.

[cecilia]

Your prize consists of not being flamed.  

As I must have been working (and therefore not paying attention) when this whole dumb card-thing 1st began, I read this interview with some objectivity.

And I have come to the conclusion that this is so stupid and ridiculous as to be a giant waste of time.

my real "prize" is being smart enough to know what to spend my brain cells on. And what not to!

I don't know anything about this garry person. He hasn't done anything bad. at least not yet. I hold NO emotion about him. And I will simply wait to see what he will do.

I expect nothing. I still believe that the only people we should "believe" in is each other. The people who have been around for years. the people who have made programs and web sites and whatever that have helped other Amiga users. Everyone else is simply a stranger who has to prove their worth.

Stop looking to a "daddy" that will "save" the Amiga. Haven't we already kept it alive by our own love of it? we don't need anyone. I know I don't.

[System]

@vorteaux

While not intending to make this personal, your reply is very indicative of EXACTLY what's wrong with this community.  Too many people having pedantic little opinions without knowing or bothering to understand the reality of the situation.

- Hare created false cards.  True.
- Hare handed them out to individuals.  True.
- Those individuals are part of "the public".  True.

THEREFORE, he handed those cards out to the public, representing himself as the CEO of Amiga Inc.  Inarguable.  Stop trying.

Now.  What *is* debatable is whether or not he gave a disclaimer to every individual that received a card.  I'm not questioning the man's honesty, but it would be very difficult to distinctly remember every word to every individual card receiver.

Like I said, you're wrong, I'm wrong, everyone is right in some form of conclusion.  Now, what was your point, other than trying to prolong the argument by picking apart someone else's comment?

[Argo]

This is rediculous.

My God, They've gone plaid!

[Argo]

I think people should read up on quantum physics and see just how truely weird reality is at the base level.

[T_Bone]

@vortexau

> Wayne, and you claim that the Card is (in your words) "genuine",

Yes, it's a "Geniune" business card. The card exists. It's not a "fake business card" but in fact, is actually a real business card that you can hold in your hand. it's not made up, it exists.

What did you think he meant?

If Garry Hare had personally handed you the card, and people called you a liar and said you photoshopped the card, how would you describe the card? Seriously?

[IonDeluxe]

It matters not. Gary claims that he "gave a disclaimer" and no proof exists otherwise.
So the claim he misrepresented himself as CEO of Amiga has no basis to stand on.

Saying those individuals are part of the public is a stretch. Offering those cards to everyone at the shows he attended and putting them in a dish free for all is public. Handing them out to a certain few individuals is not.In any case, Gary Hare claims he gave a "disclaimer" and none of the people he gave them to have said otherwise.

The person who represented Gary Hare as CEO of Amiga to the public is those who posted that he was, namely BBRV, and Wayne, pawn or not, you assisted in this deception.And this is a matter of public record that IS proveable.

It is NOT Gary Hare we should be chastising(though he deserves a smack on the wrist for giving those cards out prematurely) but BBRV who tracked down and specificly asked for this card, then with full knowledge of the truth misrepresented Gary Hare to the public as the new CEO of Amiga Inc, and even claimed credit for pushing out B McEwen.
It is his behaviour that is deploreable, dishonest, untruthful and outright lies in an attempt to besmirch someone as they came on the scene. Throw enough mud and some of it will stick goes the saying.
BBRV is an expert at throwing mud thats for sure.

[System]

Edit by Moderator:  Line Removed - Personal Attack

I'm no longer interested in discussing this [moderated] attempt to keep the blown proportion of this situation expanding.  

Have a nice -- or suitably your choice -- day.

[T_Bone]

> It is NOT Gary Hare we should be chastising

I somewhat agree. I place the blame squarely on everyone who KNEW the truth, and never spoke up while they watched people who were telling the truth be called liars. That's a damnable offense, quite literally.

What saves Garry is that he doesn't read the forums, so I can't say he participated, but we all know a few people that HAD to know, that watched these threads and even participated in them, while knowing the truth.

Both Fleecy and Bill Mc were certainly aware the card was real, and remained silent as people were called liars, and said nothing. I find comfort in the fact they will no longer have anything to do with AmigaOS because I never want to be in the position to have anything to do with them ever again. I suspect BB knew too, but I can't be positive, but if he did, the same applies.

Remaining silent while watching others being called liars, when you know the truth is right up there in the top 3 on the stone tablets.

[Waccoon]

Only a few cards were passed out.  I doubt Mr. Hare thought it would be such a big issue.  He made a personal mistake.  LEAVE IT AT THAT.  Rather than {bleep} about the cards some more, could we possibly talk more about this "business partnership" between KMOS and Hyperion, and what the existing, tiny Amiga community expects for a product, so maybe, possibly, they can actually release something?

If KMOS is just a shell game for covering Amiga's legal woes, well, that's not going to affect me, since I don't buy "coupons" and such crap.  I consider my $100 for the Party Pack to be a wasted investment, so I'm just watching for product demonstrations.  In the meantime, I'll continue to use Win2K, learn Linux and PHP, and spew out a few ideas and features I'd like to see in a next-generation OS, like a REAL scripting language, a brand new quarantine-based security model that puts JAVA to shame, and a complete, competent GUI toolkit "out of the box".  These are the things that should be commonplace on PCs, but are either done very, very wrong, or are non-existent.  GUIs, in particular, are a huge pain in the butt.  I'd really love to write my own front-ends to command-line programs without having to learn C++, or move to Java, which offeres a terrible user interface and belittles the GUI resources of the host OS.

Speaking of scripting languages, whatever happened to SHEEP?  Will it be in OS4, is it intended for DE, or is it no more?

It is NOT Gary Hare we should be chastising

Has anyone considered the possibility that Mr. Hare won't BOTHER with a second interview, after the crap that has been thrown around in this thread?

Remaining silent while watching others being called liars, when you know the truth is right up there in the top 3 on the stone tablets.

I have to admit, that asking Amiga, Inc. to remain silent for legal reasons, doesn't quite cut it.  There had to be more going on here.  But, since when has silence been out of the ordinary for Amiga, Inc.?  It's been four damn years since they "aquired" the name and they've publicly announced squat.