Order on Plantiff's Motion in Thendic Amiga Case

[Van_M]

I thought that the Itend thingy that AmigaDE runs on, is able to run Java byte code up to versio 1.3. I also thought that AmigaDE is a multiplatform solution and runs on Windows, Linux and CE so far.

[lempkee]

java? ..heh ok dream on...

anyway didnt bbrv promise a big suprise around this? , if this is the suprise then...ok.. what a big suprise....NOT!..

anyway that said , anyone who gets DE atm is good news but the bad news is that there is no engine to be ported so my guess is (keep in mind its just a guess) that they will just port the linux DE to ppc linux DE ..

cheers

[Framiga]

@ KennyR

It's doubtful that Buck actually wanted OS4, since there's probably little in it that MOS hasn't implemented already.

are you sure about those statement?

There are a "couple" of think that BB would like to have. . . . me too :-)

Ciao

[mikeymike]

I thought that the Itend thingy that AmigaDE runs on, is able to run Java byte code up to versio 1.3

That would require licensing from Sun.

[Nybbler]

Hi mikeymike,

Tao's intent, and therefore DE, does indeed run Java, and they of course must have a Sun licence to do so. :-)  I think it's up to Personal Java 1.3 ATM. In fact it's Sun certified (or some such) that means Sun have endorsed it as being a good Java VM, especially as it runs Java pretty ok I fast (ok I don't have any benchmarks, but people always reported good things about it).

Rob

[Brutus]

Now I might ask stupid, but I really don't know:
What is AmigaDE? Ihave tried to find something abuot it, but I only find things, there tells out from, that you know a little about it. Which I DON'T.....

[Nybbler]

Hi brutus,

Like most interesting technology it's difficuly to explain DE in a short way (now now, let's not have anyone suggesting a single 4-letter word summary - resist!)

Basically it's an environment that you can write applications for, and this environment can run on many different systems, so once your app runs in the environment (think of it like a media player) then it runs everywhere the environment runs, without you needing to re-build it.

As a comparison, the Linux OS runs on lots of different CPUs (Intel x86, PowerPC, and lots of other CPUs). You can write an app for x86 Linux, but it won't run straight on PowerPC Linux - you have to rebuild it, which isn't always as easy as it could be! Note that in comparison to DE, Linux is a vast beast, whereas DE is not. A bit apples 'n' oranges really :-D

DE is actually built on top of the 'intent' environment, from a company called Tao. The AmigaDE part is extra functionality on-top of that.

Right now DE is good for developers because they can write an app (mostly games right now) and have it deployed on several different systems. In the future it should also be good for the user/consumer because they will be able to run the programs they've purchased on a wider variety of hardware. So you can imagine a situation where you're not tied to upgrading your x86 box to another x86 box because all your software is x86 only. The dream is that you'll be able to buy whatever the best hardware is at the time.

Does that help (or have I hindered?)

Rob  :-)

[mikeymike]

Tao's intent, and therefore DE, does indeed run Java, and they of course must have a Sun licence to do so. I think it's up to Personal Java 1.3 ATM. In fact it's Sun certified (or some such) that means Sun have endorsed it as being a good Java VM, especially as it runs Java pretty ok I fast (ok I don't have any benchmarks, but people always reported good things about it).

Could you back up what you're saying with a reasonable source?  I don't see anything on the Amiga website about it running Java.

[Nybbler]

HI mikeymike,

Sure :-)

The easy bit is that it runs Java. This is an extract from www.amigadev.net front page:

"The environment provides a high performance, low resource development service set that allows for the development of Assembler, C/C++ and pJava content, whether it be simple utilities or screaming multimedia games. To see some examples, please visit the Amiga-Anywhere Shop or the website of one of our AmigaDE developers, Zeoneo."

As for the Sun certification I'll need a few more minutes....

Rob  :-)

[Nybbler]

@mikeymike
...as for the Sun certification:

I actually found this using google:

Sun Java Platform Resellers Deliver Java Technology for Embedded Devices

If you go to the 'Tao Group' bit (about 3/4 of the way down, just before 'Access') the last line reads:

"Tao's product is a Sun Authorized Virtual Machine and is certified against the PersonalJava specification test suite."

As for the performance, that might take me a bit longer to find. All I can say is that I was convinced that the people saying it was speedy were quite trustworthy. My opinion of course  :-D

Rob :-)

[IonDeluxe]

You mean like exactly like Amiga Inc were doing?

Please explain.Put in a PM as it is going off topic, and dont hold back on the details.

[KennyR]

I don't need to put it in a PM. Amiga Inc. didn't do any of the work on OS4, but were set to skim a sizeable portion of Hyperion's sales profit margin. If that's not getting money from someone else's hard work, I don't know what is.

[Hooligan_DCS]

DE will be the foundation of AG2 if Fleecy's Q/A sections are to be believed. I just hope DE is well supported by the time it is released in an unhosted form.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Thanks man, I needed that!  :lol:

[mikeymike]

@ Nybbler

I don't see any mention of AmigaDE on the Tao website, nor the Sun website, and:

"The environment provides a high performance, low resource development service set that allows for the development of Assembler, C/C++ and pJava content"

could just be a text editor.

I'm not saying "it definitely isn't" anything, I just want to know what it definitely is, because I've never seen or heard anything that conveys its capabilities in a definitive manner.

And this especially worries me:

"The first step in developing for the AmigaDE is to purchase the AmigaSDK, which will involve the signing of an Amiga Developer's NDA available here"

[Brutus]

Does that help (or have I hindered?)

It helped me a lot - Thanks

[Nybbler]

@mikeymike

I don't see any mention of AmigaDE on the Tao website, nor the Sun website, and:

I was going to say "I know, that's odd", but then I re-read it. If you look at that link I gave earlier, then the 3rd paragraph under Tao has the text "...Tao's implementation is also at the heart of the new Amiga system, which capitalizes on its comprehensive multimedia capabilities...". Admittedly it doesn't explicitly say AmigaDE, but it's in relation to Tao's intent, so it must be.  :-)

As for the Tao website, well I couldn't find anything except     Amiga Incorporated has entered into a strategic relationship with Tao Group for the New Amiga from back in 2000. There might be more, but I coudln't find a search function on their site.

"The environment provides a high performance, low resource development service set that allows for the development of Assembler, C/C++ and pJava content"

could just be a text editor.

Yeah, I suppose that is rather vague, but it definitely is not just an IDE. I've had the SDK from early on, and although I'm not using Java very much, I have seen and run Java apps under AmigaDE. If you're still not convinced then I'd have to just show you!  :-D

And this especially worries me:
"The first step in developing for the AmigaDE is to purchase the AmigaSDK, which will involve the signing of an Amiga Developer's NDA available here"

Yeah, that's an odd one. You don't actually HAVE to sign the NDA, if you can find a copy of the original SDK in a shop, but if you do then you can have access to much more info.

I was quite happy to sign the NDA as it's an emerging technology, and as such they don't want to publish all their work-in-progress without protecting themselves. It's what lots of IT (and I guess other) companies do. It may be that the data from Tao would require an NDA anyway? (I don't know, maybe not).

Have you even seen a demo of the SDK first-hand?

Rob  :-)