Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne  (Read 16673 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline downix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 1587
    • Show only replies by downix
    • http://www.applemonthly.com
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #44 from previous page: November 11, 2003, 06:15:35 PM »
@TheJackal

Hey, I beat ya both to it, so 8P
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline Calen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 1246
    • Show only replies by Calen
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2003, 06:22:31 PM »
Good news guys, cheers.
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12114
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2003, 07:10:05 PM »
@Rogue
Quote
Based on Mesa, I guess?


Yup... Due to the nature of the project everything has to be open source :-) Am I right in thinking that Warp3D was based on MESA?

Anyway, when you've finished on your current project, how do you feel about writing some hardware accelerated Radion GFX drivers for AROS :-D :-D :-D

Offline Methuselas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 2205
    • Show only replies by Methuselas
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2003, 07:12:14 PM »
NOW THAT's a screenshot!!! :-D Way to go Hyperion! Is it safe to assume that you've already started on the 4.1 modules, Rogue? I remember reading somewhere that 3D wasn't coming until 4.1. This is MAJOR progress to me (granted, I never got to USE Warp on my Miggy). WOW! It reminds me of the VR Training from Metal Gear Solid.  :-P
\'Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation.\' - Bruce Lee

\'No, sorry. I don\'t get my tits out. They\'re not actually real, you know? Just two halves of a grapefruit...\' - Miki Berenyi

\'Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.\' - Dark Helmet :roflmao:

\'And for future reference, it might be polite to ask someone if you can  quote them in your signature, rather than just citing them to make a  sales pitch.\' - Karlos. :rtf
 

Offline mikeymike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 3420
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by mikeymike
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2003, 07:15:33 PM »
Quote
It is a graphics function that calculates out effects on a per-pixel basis as opposed to per-vertex. It is great for creating ambience, giving materials and surfaces that little something to make it that much more realistic. So, using pixel shaders, you can give that 3D rendered face a bunch of zits or some stubble that looks more realistic than before.


Doesn't that turn 3D graphics rendering completely on its head though?  Or it simply expands on the normal rendering process?  Ie.  a shape is drawn in the usual vertex way, then instead of painting a texture per side, every pixel on each visible side is then programmed for colour, reflection value, etc.?
 

Offline FuZion

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2002
  • Posts: 223
    • Show only replies by FuZion
    • http://www.deceptiveaudio.co.uk
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2003, 07:26:07 PM »
Quote

They re-invent software rendering into the 3D graphics card

Honestly, a pixel shader is a small program in a specialized language that is executed for every pixel in the primitive that the graphics chip wants to output. This way, you can control the appearance of your output at a very low level.

Doom 3 uses these for example to calculate per-pixel lightning based on normal maps. The result looks quite spectacular. Other uses include fresnal reflection on water (where you can see the sky being mirrored in the distance but can see through the surface right before you), dirty-mirrors effects, and much more.


@Rogue

I love all that technical talk :-) :-)

Gimmie some more! :-P
 

Offline Rogue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 566
    • Show only replies by Rogue
    • http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2003, 07:30:20 PM »
Quote
Am I right in thinking that Warp3D was based on MESA?


No. StormMESA was (as its name impllies :-)) Warp3D is our code from ground up. Warp3D isn't a GL, it's more like GLIDE, meaning it is a slim layer between the Application and the hardware. Currently it doesn't even have T&L support (meaning you feed it projected screen-space coordinates) but that might change for the Radeon.

glSokoban (which you seen on the screenshot) is using MiniGL. MiniGL is an OpenGL subset library that I wrote for our port of Heretic II (just enough functionality for running a Quake2 engine, plus a few more features that where easy to implement). MiniGL directly works with Warp3D as a hardware rendering backend.

Quote
Anyway, when you've finished on your current project, how do you feel about writing some hardware accelerated Radion GFX drivers for AROS


If you're referring to 2D drivers, I think I must disappoint you - I don't know an inkling about that...
Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline downix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 1587
    • Show only replies by downix
    • http://www.applemonthly.com
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2003, 07:41:35 PM »
@mikeymike

it does both, actually.  You can do it the old-fashioned way, the new-fashioned way, or do both at once.  The best pixelshader effects I've seen have used vertex shading combined with pixel shading for maximum effect.

As Rogue pointed out, Doom 3 uses pixel shading for lighting effects, and it shines there.  The place I find it most useful, however, is in water surfaces, adding a reflection to the surface.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline Rogue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 566
    • Show only replies by Rogue
    • http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2003, 07:41:49 PM »
Quote
Doesn't that turn 3D graphics rendering completely on its head though? Or it simply expands on the normal rendering process? Ie. a shape is drawn in the usual vertex way, then instead of painting a texture per side, every pixel on each visible side is then programmed for colour, reflection value, etc.?


The hardware still does all the rasterization and stuff. Most of the modern graphics cards implement their pipeline with two programmable stages - vertex program and pixel program.

In a "normal" program the T&L unit just transforms the vertex data into clip space (the OpenGL GL_MODELVIEW matrix does that). With a vertex program, you can override that behaviour. However, you cannot (as a rule) introduce new vertices or different connectivity - you feed it a triangle and you get a triangle.

That data is rasterized by the hardware into fragments. Each fragment is really just a pixel with additional data attached (Depth value, stencil value, color, alpha, s/t coordinates etc.). A pixel shader (or fragment program) is called with this information and is supposed to either pass on these values as the output, or modify them. A fixed-function pipeline would e.g. apply a texture based on the s/t value. A pixel shader can do that, too, but it has indefinitely more possibilities. It can, for example, examine the current pixel's normal and modify the alpha value accordingly (that would result in e.g. the fresnal reflection effect mentioned earlier). It could also lighten or darken the pixel to simulate a dirty surface, or mix it with a lightsource color to produce bump mapping effects.

As I said, Doom 3 uses these for a very cool effect: They use very high density meshes for their models and then recalculate them to a low-polygon representation to be used in the game, but in the process encode parts of the "roughness"/detail lost in a special texture map. The pixel shader calculates the "real" appearance based on this info (mostly by applying lightning/shadow calculation). The result is that the Doom3 models look very detailed and high-res (and ultimately scary :-) but aren't so much more complex than the average 3d model of today.

Pixel shader effects are going to be a basic requirement for any 3D game in the coming year. There is no way that you will be able to go without them.
Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12114
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2003, 07:43:20 PM »
Quote
If you're referring to 2D drivers, I think I must disappoint you - I don't know an inkling about that...


nooo, I'm talking about 3D drivers :-D

Offline Framiga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2003
  • Posts: 4096
    • Show only replies by Framiga
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2003, 08:27:40 PM »
Quote
Poster: Kees Date: 2003/11/11 14:04:35

Lets not start another flamewar ...

. .  .too late, thanks to your "companion" mikeymike with its comment at the beginning of the thread.:

"Wot, no ansiotropic filtering or anti-aliasing? :-) "

Ciao
 

Offline Kronos

  • Resident blue troll
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 4017
    • Show only replies by Kronos
    • http://www.SteamDraw.de
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2003, 08:29:04 PM »
@Framiga

Hääääääääähhhhhh   ???

Your joking or what ?
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline Framiga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2003
  • Posts: 4096
    • Show only replies by Framiga
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2003, 08:34:54 PM »
Dear Kronos

the answer is: NOT

Cheers
 

Offline Kees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1004
    • Show only replies by Kees
    • http://www.amiga.org
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2003, 08:37:44 PM »
:-?
Kees Witteveen
Amiga.org

** Cool Signature **
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12114
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2003, 08:40:10 PM »
Quote
. . .too late, thanks to your "companion" mikeymike with its comment at the beginning of the thread.:


Mikeymike's comment should not be taken literly, since only the very latest hardware supports such features, he was making a joke that they were not supported, in this early port.

I think it was a bit of a techie joke, and certainly one that doesn't cross the language divide :-)

Offline Framiga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2003
  • Posts: 4096
    • Show only replies by Framiga
Re: Picture of Warp3D Running Natively on AmigaOne
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2003, 08:42:17 PM »
:-) :-D :-(