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Author Topic: X86-64 vs G5  (Read 3921 times)

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Offline dammyTopic starter

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X86-64 vs G5
« on: October 15, 2003, 04:45:34 PM »
Here is an interesting article on the x86-64 and how it compares to G5.      The quick and dirty                  chart is of especial interest.

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Offline cdfr

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2003, 06:02:22 PM »
Not very interesting.
Premiere has been discontinued for the mac and hardly compete with other NLE applications.
OSX is not yet optimized fully for the G5 so except better performance coming.

A boring pro PC test just because PC owners would be mad to have something going slower than on an Mac.

An interesting benchmark is one measuring the speed of what you do everyday. On a Mac it is certainly not premiere 6.
 

Offline jack

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2003, 06:27:43 PM »
The chart stinks:

Photoshop, 150Mb file: G5@2GHz=51sec,  G5@1.8GHz=76sec?

And the Word test is silly, it's not new that certain applics are more optimized on intels than other cpus.

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Offline mikeymike

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2003, 06:31:43 PM »
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And the Word test is silly, it's not new that certain applics are more optimized on intels than other cpus.


I think you'll find that applies with all software, one way or the other.
 

Offline Glaucus

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2003, 06:58:06 PM »
Considering that none of the Athlon64 chips ran a real 64 bit app, this tells me they are still far from their potential. At any rate, I think it's safe to say that Intel and AMD will soon leave the PPC in the dust.

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Offline mikeymike

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2003, 07:07:22 PM »
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At any rate, I think it's safe to say that Intel and AMD will soon leave the PPC in the dust.


I think they already did, but maybe with IBM pushing PPC, it might slowly catch up again.
 

Offline dammyTopic starter

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2003, 07:58:04 PM »
Poster: mikeymike Date: 2003/10/15 14:07:22


Quote
I think they already did, but maybe with IBM pushing PPC, it might slowly catch up again.


I don't know about that, IBM doesn't really have market forces pushing them like a Intel vs AMD enviroment.  Mot sure isn't going to be doing any pushing any time soon.

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Offline Glaucus

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2003, 09:07:02 PM »
Quote
I think they already did, but maybe with IBM pushing PPC, it might slowly catch up again.
I know, I was just trying to be a bit sensative to the anti-Intel fanaticals who may have flamed me to oblivion. :-P

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Offline Floid

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2003, 09:15:19 PM »
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The chart stinks:

Photoshop, 150Mb file: G5@2GHz=51sec, G5@1.8GHz=76sec?


What, truth hurts?

That said, a fair bit of blame can rest on OS X here.  Not for "processor optimization," but basic architecture.  Every time Photoshop redraws its window while/after a filter completes, for instance, Quartz steps in and bites off another chunk of CPU time, Extreme or not.  After 10 redraws (and a couple associated dialogs, one assumes), that starts to add up.  I'm pretty sure the weird kludge of the kernel itself adds some overheads, and so on.  (Windows, giant bag of filth or not, has had time to "evolve" various tricks around certain performance penalties; the system's been pretty well profiled by now, if only by sheer popularity and use.)

Does anyone know how Darwin works?  Can anyone keep track?

Throw out the Premiere results if you want, boggle at the Quicktime ones - as what should be a pure computational benchmark, the gap should narrow there; in that case, I expect there's some Altivec mis-optimization along with the OS overheads - ignore Word, and you're left with a picture of IBM beginning to close the performance gap with what is, frankly, the best-performing desktop chip on the planet.

Now, Mac users don't want to throw out Quartz, at least, so some of this is a 'real-world' penalty they have to live with.  But clock for clock, the 970 is pretty close (look how bad the P4 shows in comparison, at 3.4GHz!), and if IBM gets to scaling it, it should certainly play well against everything else on the market.  K8 is relatively mindblowing, P4 is a dog, and 970 is in the middle, while closer to the AMD side of the spectrum for IPC.  (Basically, you can look at the G5 as an attempt to "P4-ify" PowerPC for 'big numbers' and ease of scaling... but in so doing, IBM couldn't stuff up nearly as bad as Intel.)

Again: K8 rules.  It has a lot of circuitry dedicated to doing the 'right thing' even in spite of the x86 instruction set, and as the numbers show, it does that right thing really honking well.  970 dedicates a fair bit of circuitry to doing the right thing in spite of some assumptions made with PPC, and it does about as good, without having required quite the "full-on assault" it took to produce Hammer, or even - if I remember the pictures correctly - completely packing its die.
 

Offline PastAmigaOwner

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2003, 09:21:55 PM »
/
Quote
I think they already did, but maybe with IBM pushing PPC, it might slowly catch up again.



While I agree that Motorola won't be doing any pushing, I'm not so convinced that IBM won't.  Granted, they don't have the same market factors pushing their chip development as Intel and AMD, but the microprocessor market is in a slump and the traditional driving factors are changing quickly.   People are no longer out buying PCs just because they run a few hundred Mhz faster than last year's models anymore.  Chip manufacturers have to start getting more creative and innovative in their chip designs.  From what I can tell, IBM has invested heavily in their ability to research, develop, and produce microprocessors and they may even be the first company to get to 90 and 65 microns, beating both Intel and AMD.

Here's a interesting read from the latest Microprocessor Forum conference regarding IBM's chip development plans for its Power series processors -


   
 http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/10/14/power5
 

Offline Floid

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2003, 09:51:17 PM »
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From what I can tell, IBM has invested heavily in their ability to research, develop, and produce microprocessors and they may even be the first company to get to 90 and 65 microns, beating both Intel and AMD.


Don't forget the IBM/AMD co-prosperity sphere.  When it comes to process tech, what's good for one looks to be good for the other.

...and if they collectively take just /half/ of Intel's desktop market share and split it (x86 is relevant for the next decade no matter how you shake it; look how long it took to kill VAX or Alpha), that's a good few $billion/year.
 

Offline downix

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2003, 09:59:32 PM »
From my viewpoint, IBM is not depending on Apple for anything beyond first-row testing and establishing a developer base for them.  They're being smart here, making a chip that would enable them to better compete against the newly found scalable solutions such as those from Dell.  By being a seperate technology, PowerPC rather than Xeon, IBM can create a "developer gap" to retain customers.  In this case, Apple is the one doing the majority work for IBM to encourage this gap with a user-friendly home machine.

Quite brilliant if you ask me.
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Offline AxE

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2003, 12:16:43 AM »
heres why this chart is total bs (check further down the page) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12140
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Offline Bodie

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2003, 12:57:30 AM »
@AxE

Thanks for the interesting link :-)
 

Offline dammyTopic starter

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Re: X86-64 vs G5
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2003, 05:50:17 AM »
Poster: AxE Date: 2003/10/15 19:16:43


Quote
heres why this chart is total bs (check further down the page) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12140[/quote

I will point out the AMD system had a huge anchor, Windows itself.   Give it a good light weight OS, and then see how it compares with G5s.

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