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Author Topic: Genesi : 'How we see things'  (Read 14458 times)

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Offline SystemTopic starter

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2003, 07:10:59 PM »
**wild applause**
****Standing ovation****

I don't see anything spectacular in this letter.  Single pleasant words for the listener.  

Lately alone this web or peg/mos news are come or when they leave amigaone/os4 news the genesis users they leave to remember that the peg/mos also exists.

Amiga.org every day that passes seems but to one it paginates propagandist of peg/mos. I don“t understand cause you ends up losing the impartiality. :-(

It is alone a personal opinion without desires of creating any breakage, but it is something that saddens me and he/she needed to say it.
 

Offline greenboy

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2003, 07:29:40 PM »
Billsey,

I am hard-pressed to see what you are seeing as regards "truth" or "crowd-pleasing". Or the "fluff" that someone else mentioned, either. This is not Amiga Inc talking publicly about going to IPO when it was clearly illegal. This is not a company asking for handouts or community "good will".

Neither is it especially about the post-CBM Amiga community, which clearly can not sustain resellers or developers or publishers.

This is about building business relationships that can place product in a larger world. That means that Genesi needs strong partners with some common vision who can leverage their understanding, connections, and finance. Genesi can only do so much of this in-house, and one might view the GLADIATEUR thread to see some examples of what much of this statement is talking about.

Genesi is not asking for mercy sex because they don't have the cred to get anything real going (which is the approach we have seen all too often in this neighborhood for years). How crowd-pleasing is it, really, to ask that anyone who can contribute in the expanded definition of DEVELOPER begin to think of a larger world in BUSINESSLIKE terms, and to stretch out their expectations of themselves and their abilities? How crowd pleasing is it to mention much of what is said there? ... We are talking some ambitious planning and work, and stepping beyond the comfortable, the secure (a security that has been largely based on low expectations and ultimately failure), and the known.

And with that comes risk, and the need to think past noble failure in the Amiga marketplace that comes with just making an app and expecting to sell a few copies. Larger projects with wider scope built on realistic understanding of the markets and the opportunities and risks are needed for anyone to truly enjoy a long-term future.

Genesi is saying where it wants to go, and offering others a clue on how to participate for bigger stakes. There is no "don't worry be happy" here. The rewards mentioned do not come from simply sending some money. It comes from participation at a very ambitious level, and one needs to grok fully the implications to have a shot at succeeding.

BBRV's statement is not especially geared for people who want to play armchair analyst. It is for people who might consider participating at any level, and so they might understand a larger picture - one that ups the risk but also widens the field of opportunities.

As for PROFITABLE, I've said it all along: Genesi is planning for a long campaign wherein selling a thousand or few boards has little to do with success - unless you are putting those boards into more useful hands, they are wasted. The so-called Amiga market will never matter unless it is tied into a larger view of computing. Which means rethinking what methods to COMPETE are available, and what technology itself implies about the future.

I don't expect that everybody will really see those implications since the field up to now is riddled with failures of vision and commitment, and because people tend to think that what they are familiar with is all there really is to the future - only thinking that the future will be faster and cheaper.

Well, it takes all kinds of development to support this kind of a roadmap that BBRV is presenting, so I expect that developers of all levels can find something to do on a large number of OSes and distros that will satisfy them, and all of it will contribute to the larger picture.

But people who have the ambition to go farther will likely help redfine the context and the geography. I think BBRV and Genesi are working on that angle and already have some partners to get this rolling. These people rightfully understand that the way it is right now is NOT ENOUGH, or they are convinced that the risk of their financial alliance is well-considered. Again, see the GLADIATEUR threads to get an example of the synergy of partners we are looking for.
<-- greenboy ---<<<<
 

Offline Damion

Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2003, 07:48:14 PM »
This is a very solid decision; employees are
much more apt to take a "personal interest"
in their jobs when they own part of the
company - and can be directly responsible for
their own success. In the end everybody
benefits. I think it's a great idea bbrv! :)
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2003, 08:13:04 PM »
I'll comment later, when I've filtered the substance away from the soundbytes.  :-P
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline cecilia

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2003, 08:23:25 PM »
hi, greenboy! don't worry about Billsey. he always talks like he has secret knowledge. :-D

I was very impressed with Bill and company when I was at AmiWest and i continue to be impressed with the professioanlism I see from all involved with Genesi.

I'va always gambled on myself because I know I wouldn't lose and I think that's what all you felles are doing with your own talents and ambitions! I say, good luck and if I can ever be useful, here I am! :-P
the no CARB diet- no Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld or Bush.
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Offline ne_one

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2003, 08:32:46 PM »
An interesting gesture, but why not extend an olive branch and create technology partners rather than soliciting dreams from end users?

I can't help but believe that Genesi is a hardware company that invested in the development of MorphOS to provide a delivery platform. In the absence of any alternatives this made sense -- 5 years ago. But today we have a fickle industry and a user base that is decidedly indifferent.

What's especially strange is that politics always seem to take a priority over commercial viability.

Here's a suggestion: agree to licensing terms with Amiga/Hyperion & Eyetech and open up a market. This doesn't discredit MorphOS, it simply offers choice.

Here's another: develop a low-cost micro system/consumer appliance that people keep *begging* for - the MegaPC is a perfect example. This market needs a $500 platform - unless we hit that critical threshold it will remain a curiosity.
 

Offline SystemTopic starter

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2003, 08:51:10 PM »
Quote
Here's a suggestion: agree to licensing terms with Amiga/Hyperion & Eyetech and open up a market. This doesn't discredit MorphOS, it simply offers choice.
Speaking completely off the record and unofficially, everything is not as simple and straightforward as you seem to want to present.
 

Offline HMetal

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2003, 08:55:38 PM »
Give greenboy a prize for being the jerk who brings Amiga, Inc. into a post where it clearly shouldn't have been.  Agenda showing once again.

Too bad Genesi is associated with it as it makes them look bad even to people who were starting to be won over.

You don't boost your product and plans by hoisting it up over another.

Try sticking to merits and you'll do better, greenboy.
Ray A. Akey / AKA HMetal
 

Offline N7VQM

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2003, 09:09:35 PM »
@HMetal

There is nothing to compare merits to except business plans and prospects.  In that regard, Genesi sure seems to be in a much better posistion than Amiga.  The hardware and software comparisons are largely irrelevent at this point.
\\"...an error of 1 is much less significant in counting the population of the Earth than in counting the occupants of a phone booth.\\" - Michael T. Heath, Scientific Computing...
 

Offline Damion

Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2003, 09:16:01 PM »
@HMetal

Quote

Give greenboy a prize for being the jerk who brings Amiga, Inc. into a post where it clearly shouldn't have been. Agenda showing once again.

Too bad Genesi is associated with it as it makes them look bad even to people who were starting to be won over.

You don't boost your product and plans by hoisting it up over another.

Try sticking to merits and you'll do better, greenboy.


:-?
 

Offline ssolie

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2003, 09:26:18 PM »
After this announcement and previous ones I still don't quite understand the need for Genesi to continue to invest in MorphOS. First, you have all those other *nix-based OSs at your disposal. Second, you have QNX and maybe you could get VxWorks on Pegasos for the embedded market. I think that would be a lot cheaper and faster than producing your own unknown OS from scratch. Shipping MorphOS with every board is good but I think corporate customers need a much better reason to switch to MorphOS other than it's cool and free--so is Linux for that matter. So I'm curious, where is the big differentiator? Why would a company want MorphOS over the alternatives?

I think all potential investors should know how MorphOS factors into the potential rate of return considering the amount of investment going into it. I know I'm going to get in hot water for all this but isn't MorphOS just dead weight going forward?

Curiously Yours,
Potential Investor
ExecSG Team Lead
 

Offline The_Editor

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2003, 09:31:33 PM »
I'm glad I'm not the only one that liked the walker.

Add some louvre vents in the sides a better faceplate & colour keyed drives ... Cold cathode tube inside...

Lovely ol job !!  :-D
The Reluctant Pom
 

Offline greenboy

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2003, 09:49:50 PM »
There is nothing wrong with providing an example of a fairly recent IPO strategy that was proposed within this community - and died just as quickly. That attempt to involve people of the community was a good example (at the best), of clueless research and strategizing - and at the worst, the willingness to entrap people in the community in a non-legal situation.

Several posts above supplied the need to make such a comparison; to make it clear that BBRV is NOT mentioning IPO or stock in the same context whatsoever. Indeed, the mere mention of stocks by one of the above posters made it imperative to make sure that nobody confuse Genesi's intentions with your company's unrealizable intentions of several years ago. Those Amiga Inc announcements and forum posts of "going public" were not legally realizable, and have NOTHING to do with the HOW WE SEE IT item above.

So. I want to make it perfectly clear that Genesi is NOT proposing to place any burden on users, and that Genesi DOES understand legally what is possible... The last thing this community needs is more half-baked "send in your money" evangelism to dent its resolve.

HOW WE SEE IT is another large slice of the roadmap that BBRV shares with the community from time to time,  revealed in mostly general terms so that those who might choose to participate in some way are not later shocked by where things are going and how they are getting there. We do not want people to think this is just about some Amiga desktop replacement and that it ends there, or either that it is about servers and home gateways without memory protection, or any of the dubious and poorly researched things Amiga Inc have said in slideshows and voice and print since their first tradeshow.

Your company was either misleading the users or was incapable of researching the simplest technical issues, and bungled the job of leading the community as it proposed to also do. We are attempting to do better. We've made mistakes and we've had obstacles, but we are going to do our best not to misrepresent what our plans are, regardless of the chance of not always looking like we made the full goals. To work with others at this level has a terrible responsibility with it, and we want everybody involved to have open eyes about the risks.

So, yes, I am going to mention Amiga Inc. It is simply the most relevant example of multiple apparent changes of face and strategy - and the community has paid dearly for all of the incidents, those remembered and those forgotten and overlooked. Blaming all downturns on the market for I.T. has been disingenuous. The root of Amiga Inc problems are deeper and more troubled.
<-- greenboy ---<<<<
 

Offline SystemTopic starter

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2003, 09:57:30 PM »
Ray and Greenboy,

Now that you've had your first say in the matter, please stop now before this devolves into yet another pointless AI versus Genesi debacle.

I say this as an innocent bystander, not as anyone official to Amiga.org.  Please feel free to ignore me, but please also think about the consequences of the continued POINTLESS arguing going on.

Wayne
 

Offline seer

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2003, 09:59:37 PM »
So, yes, I am going to mention Amiga Inc. It is simply the most relevant example of multiple apparent changes of face and strategy - and the community has paid dearly for all of the incidents, those remembered and those forgotten and overlooked.

And you honestly didn't think nobody was thinking "flamebait" ?? Sorry, but HMetal has a point, this is news about MOS, no reason to jump on Amiga Inc.. (A good example why some people are going to amigaworld and don't look here anymore...)
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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you.
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Offline Kees

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Re: Genesi : 'How we see things'
« Reply #29 from previous page: August 14, 2003, 10:11:59 PM »
I happen to be an official to Amiga.org and i also urge you not to turn this thread into another battlefield.
Kees Witteveen
Amiga.org

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