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Author Topic: Amiga Auction List Posted  (Read 34908 times)

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Offline Ohno

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2003, 09:30:17 AM »
@Wayne

Quote
Before the door hits you in the ass however, ask yourself this.... How many verifyable humiliating problems will Amiga Inc create for themselves before you stop the apparent hero worship long enough to admit that there are problems? Remember, admitting there is a problem is the first step on the road to recovery...


Why is everyone who opposes you or think differently than you an Amiga-worshipper? Yet if someone calls you a Pegasos worshipper you get insulted?
AmigaMonkey just pointed out that you are overly biased and he doesn't like they way you talk about Amiga. He prefers a civilized talk like people have on Amigaworld.net and the way it once was on Amiga.org.

I work on Amiga-Anywhere and I don't worship Amiga Inc., I think there were quite a few things they should have done differently, but even Fleecy himself says they made mistakes in the past. I do try to step in however when people are telling blatent lies or ridicule Amiga Inc. based on nothing (although they usually claim it to be based on facts).

And I personally don't see anything wrong with your avatar, love that movie. But I can imagine someone taking offence in ridiculing their way of life/their believes.

Regards,

Onno
 

Offline Ogy

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #75 on: June 15, 2003, 12:33:30 PM »
I think this all is getting to far now...

AInc is in trouble othervise they would deliver products and this sort of auction would never take a place - FACT!

Just by runing this sort of site Wayne has done more for Amiga comunity then AInc themselves - FACT!

And for the end - Amiga as a platform needs input from a GENIUS not from a clever economist, or a truck driver or businessman...etc. in order to survive and stand next (or above) PC or Mac market from today. Just remember how and why did we start using it 15+ years ago... Exactly!!! It was the product of THE GENIUS...

Someone has to start with serious GURU MEDITATION otherwise we never will get anywhere - FACT!

Untill then I will be checking Amiga.org regulary on my 2Ghz wintel machine (that rocks!!!) with a hope that one day GENIUS will apear again...
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #76 on: June 15, 2003, 12:44:40 PM »
I feel a strong urge to jump in here (even though I know I shouldn't :-P ).

I want to point out that Eyetech and Hyperion are doing a good job, I feel sorry that this situation occured.

But the following is all the fault of Amiga Inc., I'm not talking of past mistakes or inheriting a bad situation. I am saying Amiga Inc. as they are now, are to blame for this whole situation.

Genesi (and the MOS team) and AROS are both reactions to Amiga Inc.'s very clear and firm annoucment that the "Classic Amiga" was finished. No more Amiga Classic systems. AmigaOS? nah, that's dead, we've got AmigaDE!!!

The MOS Team saw a market and started developing a product to fill it. The AROS team was formed by members of this community who didn't wish to see their beloved platform die. And all goes well, until Amiga Inc. realise that AmigaDE is still born and unable to meet even the more modest parts of their new Amiga specification. They see that MOS and AROS are going to hit the target market spot on, and then rope in Eyetech to make them some PPC hardware and claim that AmigaOS4.0 (PPC native) is entering the final stage of development/testing (back in 2002/2001, I forget, since they put out so many statements!). This turns out to be a lie (along with AmigaOS x86, probably an attempted to displace the AROS team).

It turns out that AmigaOS 4.0 does not exist and Hyperion are brought in to make it happen. Eyetech are let down by their PPC board company and have to buy in standard PPC boards....

So where does that leave us? In a very nasty situation. Had Amiga Inc said, ok, we will licence the PPC version of MOS as AmigaOS PPC and, say licence the x86 Version of AROS for AmigaOS x86 (The AROS team actually changed their licence to make this possible!), we would not be in this situaton...
Put simply they got greedy.

So who is to blame? That's right Amiga Inc.  :-(

So now we have three solutions  (two and a half :-P, since AROS PPC is still very early) and one market. Well done Amiga Inc. Your business acumon is fantasic.  :-x

-EDIT- Feel free to disagree, This is afterall just my view of the situation. :-o

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #77 on: June 15, 2003, 02:16:43 PM »
@bloodline

Quote
This turns out to be a lie (along with AmigaOS x86, probably an attempted to displace the AROS team).

That's bollox and you know it Matt.  "Amiga x86" was the name Amiga Inc wanted to market Amithlon under, probably for no other reason than using the "Amiga" trademark and "x86" to indicate the target hardware.

Amithlon was not developed as an alternative to AROS, nor were Amiga Inc interested in it in order to displace AROS.  You really take AROS way too seriously if you think anyone regards it as a threat to anybody's market.  It isn't that now, and it most certainly wasn't two years ago.

The reason "Amiga x86" never materialised as advertised was a combination of things: lack of funds at Amiga Inc meaning they could not convince the authors they would able to deliver on their promises, threats and blackmail from H&P and strong vociferous opposition from Eyetech and Hyperion against any involvement with the x86 market whatsoever.

The rest of your rant is entertaining too, but doesn't seem to have much basis in fact to me, so I'll just treat it as an imaginative re-write of history.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2003, 02:33:09 PM »
Clearly I didn't know it. As this is what I've seen and had to put up with.

I made a suggestion that AmigaOS x86 was an effort to displace AROS. It was a possiblity, not fact, and I presented it as such.

As for therest of my rant. I would be happy for you to point out my missunderstanding od what went on, because, in all honesty that is exactly as I view it...

I'm not trying to distort the events, I concider myself a keen Amiga user, and thus have always wanted to see the Amiga survive. It is with great regret that I now see Amiga Inc. as slowly drowning the Amiga platform and name.

I say, without bias, that Genesi have done more for the Amiga community in the last 6 months than Amiga Inc. have ever done. Simply based on the level of support they have provided.

I don't want to say anything against either Hyperion or Eyetech, they simply have to make the best of the situation they (unwittingly?) fell/jumped into, almost certainly based on lies and broken promises from Amiga Inc.

But again this is my oppinion, if you can provide me with evidence to the contraty I will happily make a public retraction.

Offline System

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2003, 03:46:52 PM »
Quote
Why is everyone who opposes you or think differently than you an Amiga-worshipper? Yet if someone calls you a Pegasos worshipper you get insulted?
Point taken.  See?  It's apparently very easy to get confused in either direction.

To set the record straight, I hope the Amiga platform succeeds.  I really do, but I honestly feel that if the Amiga succeeds, it will be because of companies such as Eyetech, Hyperion, and Genesi, as well as the Amiga community IN SPITE OF Amiga Inc.

Let's remember a fact here folks.  Bill McEwen stood at the podium three years ago and declared "AmigaOS is dead" and "The Amiga as a desktop platform is dead".  These might be words spoken to fit the times, but it's apparent to most people here that the business plan for DE is dead-ended.  

Amiga's plan with DE is to act as a middle man, taking a cut of the profits between developers and sales of DE games.  The problem is, the deal for example on the Microsoft game pack is between Microsoft and Amiga Inc (or possibly written between Microsoft and Bill McEwen), not Microsoft and the developers themselves.  

An interesting *rumor* I received from an AA developer yesterday has it that the author of the crossword puzzle (which is the only "Amiga" game on the Microsoft pack) won't get paid a dime because AI literally gave that game to Microsoft in exchange for the publishing of the actual Amiga branded game packs.  I just hope that if there's ANY truth to that rumor, the author of that game got SOMETHING for his efforts.  

Hopefully whomever that author is, is here and can set the record straight?  If I'm wrong, that's cool and I apologize, but as stated, this is just the rumor I was presented with.

LEGALLY before Bill McEwen can pay any developer a single dime, he MUST pay off debts such as Bolton Peck and the long list of pending court cases.  If any developer receives any sort of payment from Amiga Inc before said debts are settled, it is in violation of federal law.
 

Offline downix

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #80 on: June 15, 2003, 04:48:11 PM »
I heard a rumor that some folk from AInc are denying that the equiptment in this list is from their office.  I went through this list with a fine-tooth comb, and the concept that someone "inserted" equiptment into AInc's auction is utter moose pattys.  We have here a complete list of an office, and nothing more nor less.  The Viewtronic monitors and HP Vectras, for example, are part of the same setup, they went together.  There was a very nice web-server and LAN server setup, designed to handle up to 120 computers and w/ the bandwidth and workload to handle a huge amount of traffic.  In short, AInc was loaded and ready to rock.

But they didn't need any of this till they had a product.  They put the cart before the horse, and as a result they lost.

I wish I could say I felt sorry for them, but they did this to themselves.
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Offline bhoggett

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #81 on: June 15, 2003, 05:12:00 PM »
@bloodline

Quote
I made a suggestion that AmigaOS x86 was an effort to displace AROS. It was a possiblity, not fact, and I presented it as such.

Public knowledge shows that it was not a possibility. It's a known fact that McBill admitted at AmiWest two years ago that they only saw Amithlon for the first time a few days before the show - literally. So how it is that you jump from that to the possible conclusion that it was somehow Amiga Inc's effort to displace AROS is totally beyond my comprehension.

As for the rest, I don't disagree with your assessment of Amiga Inc's performance at all, but I don't agree with your presentation of events. AOS4 was not developed in response to MOS, Amithlon was not developed in response to AROS, and in both cases Amiga Inc had either very little or nothing at all to do with them coming about.

Regarding AOS4, the sequence of events as I recall it goes a little like this:

- Amino buy the Amiga rights from Gateway and then change their name to Amiga Inc. They have no interest in "Classic Amiga" development, concentrating on the AmigaDE future. H&P are due to develop a PPC native AOS4 for use on the existing "Classic" PPC expansion cards. Relations between H&P and AI are not good and getting worse.

- Eyetech make their plans for a custom PPC based AmigaOne public, and AI see an opportunity to sell a desktop OS again (meanwhile their plans for DE turn out to be wildly optimistic). They are still in agreement that H&P should to the job, but with far less freedom and priviledges than H&P had grown accustomed with. H&P are even less happy about AI.

- H&P disagree with the conditions and direction AI want to go in and quietly drop any AOS4 development, probably also due to not getting any financial support from AI towards development. They concentrate on other directions - which later turn out to be a UAE port to QNX.  Meanwhile Eyetech also encounter growing problems with Escena.

- AI's reaction to H&P's action is to talk to the MOS developers about possibly turning MOS into the next official AOS. We've all heard the stories relating to how that turned out.  So the result is that AI have no OS to present to Eyetech for AmigaOne, but this seems unimportant as Escena seem incapable of delivering a working board anyway. Everything grinds to a halt, with the exception of MOS, but no one thinks it would be a good idea to tell the public about it (and they are probably right).

(I don't know much about the Thendic/Pegasos timeline - but I wasn't even aware of their existence at this stage)

- AmiWest 2001 comes about, and Amithlon is presented as "Amiga x86". All hell breaks loose and the PPC vs x86 wars hit the road in earnest. Hyperion and Eyetech supremos make very public and very damning comments about what they see as utterly disatrous involvement with the x86 market, but it dawns on them that their own PPC solution is virtually kaput. AOS4 development is stalled, and Eyetech have virtually given up on Escena. What to do?

- AI lose/give up Amithlon pulication to H&P and cease  talking about it. They concentrate all their talk on the PPC future and the "Triumvirate" is formed. Hyperion offer to do the OS, Eyetech promise to get the hardware project restarted and Amiga Inc... well, Amiga Inc see the "money for nothing" signs and say "Sure, go ahead. We're right behind you."

During all this time Thendic's profile grows as their alliance with the MOS team is strengthened.

I can't see how any of this leads you to believe that AOS4 was devised in response to MOS or Amithlon developed to displace AROS.

You might argue that I don't list AROS as a significant factor in any of the events above, and you'd be right. AROS was never a threat to anyone, and it still isn't. The only role it had was as an indirect factor in the way Amithlon was conceived. (The original idea was to use AROS and integrate the JIT 68k emulation into it to result in a closed source commercial product. This ended up being rejected for a number of reasons, being replaced with the Linux+JIT+AOS combination that finally hit the market).

In conclusion: have Genesi done more for the community than Amiga Inc? Assuredly so. Have Amiga Inc demonstrated incompetence time after time? Yup. Have they proved incapable of learning from past mistakes? 'fraid so. Do I think your interpretation of events has even the remotest possibility of being accurate? Nope.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2003, 05:28:45 PM »
Quote
In conclusion: have Genesi done more for the community than Amiga Inc? Assuredly so. Have Amiga Inc demonstrated incompetence time after time? Yup. Have they proved incapable of learning from past mistakes? 'fraid so. Do I think your interpretation of events has even the remotest possibility of being accurate? Nope.


While I don't quite agree with some of the way you have interpreted events, I will submit that you are more aware of the overall situation than I am.
But as I consider myself as an Average Amiga User, I would say that my interpretation is probably not unique.

At the end of the day, and most importantly, we have drawn the same conclutions from the differing infomation avaiable to us both... which, I think you will agree, shows how useless A Inc. have been, and will continue to be, until they get some decent management... not these Dotcom boomers.

As for AROS, You are probably right. But I will hold that A Inc. were worried that MOS and AROS were targeting something they felt they should have even though they had claimed the Amiga Desktop was dead and AmigaOS was to be phased out with 3.9... or some such nonsense.  :-)

-Edit- A Inc. Business meeting http://amiga.org/gallery/photo.php?lid=493

Offline Alkemyst

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2003, 05:45:55 PM »
@bhoggett

I remember it exactly as you said.
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Offline Ohno

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2003, 08:31:54 PM »
Quote
LEGALLY before Bill McEwen can pay any developer a single dime, he MUST pay off debts such as Bolton Peck and the long list of pending court cases. If any developer receives any sort of payment from Amiga Inc before said debts are settled, it is in violation of federal law.


Not so sure about that. Amiga Inc. is our distributor (as per our SDA) and only distributes our product. They take a cut of the sales-price and that is the money they make. It might be possible they need to pay of depts first with that part of the money (not sure of your legal system and not sure if there are any more depts either), but it seems very strange to me that other people's money should be used to pay of their distributors' depth.

Regards,

Onno
 

Offline dammy

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2003, 09:12:40 PM »
Poster: Ohno Date: 2003/6/15 15:31:54

Quote
but it seems very strange to me that other people's money should be used to pay of their distributors' depth.


If Amiga Inc is forced to turn over any monies to those parties which have a judgement against them, Amiga Inc will still owe you monies.  They'll just have to owe it to you is all.  You trust them, right? ;^)

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Offline JoannaK

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2003, 09:21:04 PM »
Ohno:

IANAL ... Nor I never wanted to be.  But my best advice is that you'll better check that one with someone who understands USA systems.. In my amateur view any money that goes into Ainc-s account is treated equally, I don't belive there is a way to mark some money going to you (or other DE game makers) so that it could not be spend on higher priority uses.

(edit..  Removed last line.. was too inpolite)
 

Offline Targhan

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2003, 09:22:11 PM »
Sad.
Regards,
Targhan
 

Offline dammy

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #88 on: June 15, 2003, 10:27:43 PM »
Poster: Wayne Date: 2003/6/14 13:02:10


Quote
They have no employees (they have volunteers)


I wonder if IRS considers that as taxiable?  IRS can tax bartering, they probably can tax Amiga Inc getting these benefits of professional volunteer's work?   Anyone know the IRS tax code enough to comment?

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Offline Hammer

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #89 from previous page: June 16, 2003, 04:07:35 AM »
Quote
I made a suggestion that AmigaOS x86 was an effort to displace AROS. It was a possiblity, not fact, and I presented it as such.


I wouldn’t regard the current ‘AROS (referring to the main X86 distribution)’ as ‘AmigaOS X86’ since it doesn’t run the old 'AmigaOS' based legacy software** on the X86 hardware. Secondly, AROS doesn’t quite have an official “AmigaOS” endorsement.  It’s just a clone**** with source code compatibility on non-68k hardware.  

I don’t see people in the mainstream market labelling ‘OS/2 Warp’(with Windows compatibility) as ‘MS Windows’…  

**Binary distributions.
****A clone that has potential.

I do hope that Amiga Inc can control their unnecessary expenditures in the near future. Events such as mentioned earlier doesn’t help with evangelism of AmigaOS platform.
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