Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4  (Read 5378 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline amigamadTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 2159
    • Show only replies by amigamad
AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« on: April 12, 2003, 02:02:57 PM »
Amiga has released an article describing its application launcher AmiDock in AmigaOS4 with pictures. os.amiga.com

I once had an amigaone xe but sold it .

http://www.tamiyaclub.com
 

Offline FuZion

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2002
  • Posts: 223
    • Show only replies by FuZion
    • http://www.deceptiveaudio.co.uk
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2003, 02:29:00 PM »
Hands up who agrees then!

I reckon AmiDock is gonna be one of those, "Why hasn't it been done like THIS before?" applications.

Nice, nice & nice!
 

Offline SlimJim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 752
    • Show only replies by SlimJim
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2003, 02:31:53 PM »
I must say those screenshots are really shaping up ... I
know i it depends on what developer's machine they are
taking it from, but this was actually really decent, even for
a  standard look (I still think the community should get to
vote on a few pre-set looks presented by the developers
though, if nothing else it is a good PR thing letting the
community have an influence).
 
The application.library and the AmiDock can be a useful
pair. Looking forward to what clever programmers can do
with this. I can for example envision a clipboard lister in a
'dockie' -invaluable. All those nifty alpha-channel effects
could come in handy too. Eye-candy abound! :-D
 
On a different note, it's good to see content of the CAM
being released to the general public. Not so surprising as
this is what was said to happen from the beginning. And I
didn't notice paying anything to read this info from AInc. Did
you?
.
SlimJim
 

Offline z5

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2002
  • Posts: 366
    • Show only replies by z5
    • http://ada.untergrund.net
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2003, 03:19:42 PM »
Keep in mind that the current design in the screenshots is not the final one.

I for one am curious to see what they will come up with concerning the design and layout of OS4 (new iconset?, backdrops,...).

There still is no doubt in my mind that OS4 will be a quality product. I really hope they can release it in time. I've got my cash ready and the first day of release, i will buy myself AOne + OS4.

Wishing the OS4 team luck and courage for what are hopefully the last months before release.
A.miga D.emoscene A.rchive: Relive the dreams...
 

Offline Valan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 173
    • Show only replies by Valan
    • http://www.creativepixels.com.hk
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2003, 07:25:55 PM »
Look at the options on the screengrabs!
I guess these are there to give a hint of the power the user will have over the look. Fantastic stuff!

As for the AmiDoc I hope we see browser controls there so that the web is truelly integrated into the computer.

Another would be to have a propper history of documents and apps used.  This could even include search results. Find 'catagory' opens a window containing  e.g .mpg files or Yoga_* files.

I still think a modern variation of the WB1.3 would be a great place to start.
 

Offline redfox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 882
  • Country: ca
    • Show only replies by redfox
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2003, 11:06:11 PM »
Very nice screenshots ... :-D  :-D

I thought the article "AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4" was well written and very interesting.
Thanks, Stefan.

As a member of Club Amiga, I read the article when it came out in the online magazine. I think it was a good idea to release it to the general "Amiga" community for their perusal and comment. Perhaps other articles will also be released soon.

Some may call me crazy  .... I'm looking forward to AmigaOS 4  :-D  :-D
---------------
redfox
 

Offline downix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 1587
    • Show only replies by downix
    • http://www.applemonthly.com
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2003, 12:24:14 AM »
AmiDock looks same as it always has, a pale shadow of similar docks found in other OS's, such as MacOS X, WM and OS/2.  An improvement over the existing AmiDock, but still nothing to write home to mama about.  (note, ad a general rule, I don't like Docks much to begin with, never have)

application.library, on the other hand, appears to be one of the worst kludges I've ever seen.  Rather than design a future-looking mechanism that operates behind the scenes, Amiga's fallen on the same approach that has belegered WOS applications for years.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline teo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 259
    • Show only replies by teo
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2003, 05:17:05 AM »
System wide global xml based preferences/configuration system!

Stroke of genius guys.
 

Offline downix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 1587
    • Show only replies by downix
    • http://www.applemonthly.com
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2003, 07:39:42 PM »
@teotwin

a system-wide xml based configuration system would be dog-slow compared to text or binary-based configuration systems.  The more apps access it, and thereby hit the interpreter, the slower the system runs.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline Rogue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 566
    • Show only replies by Rogue
    • http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2003, 08:16:58 PM »
Quote
a system-wide xml based configuration system would be dog-slow compared to text or binary-based configuration systems. The more apps access it, and thereby hit the interpreter, the slower the system runs.


Explain that, please. The prefs are read when the application starts, and written when the application wants to save it (which is quite rare).

Why should that have any impact on performance? That would only happen if you would re-parse the XML file every time the application wants to access on of its prefs items, but that would be braindead. Application.library caches the file in parsed format in memory.

And if you want to guard against external modifications of the XML file, you set up a DOS file notification and re-parse only if there has been an external access.

So why should this have any more impact on the system than your run-of-the-mill text preferences file, or a binary file?
Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline Rogue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 566
    • Show only replies by Rogue
    • http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2003, 08:19:39 PM »
Quote
application.library, on the other hand, appears to be one of the worst kludges I've ever seen. Rather than design a future-looking mechanism that operates behind the scenes, Amiga's fallen on the same approach that has belegered WOS applications for years.


Are you sure you understood how this system works? I can't seem to find how this relates to WOS in any aspect.
Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline nOw2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2002
  • Posts: 194
    • Show only replies by nOw2
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2003, 12:28:49 PM »
Application library appears to clone functionallity in commodities. Why was commodities not simply extended when most applications implement a commodities interface as is? To say "long-missed feature of AmigaOS" is simply wrong!

Also, the other aspect of applications.library - configurations. Is iffparse.library and ENV not standard in AmigaOS? Again, the sentence "Until now, there was no default system within ..." is simply wrong. Yes, there is work envolved in using iffparse, but surely we could build on this rather than create another library to do similar things! (But yes, XML is the way to go currently).

Simplicity is the key of operating systems, and certainly always has been AmigaOS's API's selling point. Applications.library doesn't seem to have been well thought out at all; certainly it seems more like a 3rd party tool than an OS component.
 

Offline Floid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 918
    • Show only replies by Floid
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2003, 03:24:35 PM »
On the 'Why hasn't it been done this way before?" note, it has- NeXT pretty much brought the concept of extensible docks to bear, as someone one had to point out to me on AmiOpen.  (In that case, I was arguing in favor of vectorized/scalable displays; apparently NeXT had more prominent user control over scaling of 'dockapps,' or so was said.  I've never seen screenshots, and I gathered GNUStep/WindowMaker was taking credit for invention of active content in docks... not really sure, even today.)  This new system gives a lot more control over presentation of NeXT-ish docks, though, while most other UIs have followed the Lisa / CDE? / Windows model of limited functionality.

As a UI nut, I'd say there's a conceptual difference between the two approaches; an extensible dock is an area of reserved screen real-estate where overlap doesn't occur.  (Those who know me know I'm not a big fan of overlap, especially as relates to the conventional 'cluttered desk' metaphor of interface presentation. ;))  A special-purpose dock is 'just' a funny-shaped window made such to get around the limitations of the windowed environment; it's the UI designer's way of saying, "Well, the interface to *my* product- the OS/Workbench/IE- deserves to be special, but you peonic third-parties only get regular windows, or a little tray on the right, or reimplement your own d*mn solution."  I've got nothing against controls reserved to the OS, of course, *if* non-OS software can be allowed to achieve the same level of usability/consistency.  (Hey, modern systems have this problem licked!  They just make sure *nothing* is usable or consistent! :-D)

...An area of reserved screen real-estate that behaves differently from all other areas (regular windows) can't help but be 'special,' of course... so looked at in that light, the OS X dock does almost as good a job as the NeXT dock, if having failings on aesthetic/efficiency (screen real-estate) grounds; I haven't used it much, but IIRC they've chucked in a sort of "Harvard architecture" enforcement between the left and right sides, which is probably good UI except for the inflexibility in choosing other arrangements (documents organized next to the creating application, say).  AmiDock has the potential to do it all, including NeXT/Apple-style persistence (with the automatic adding feature)... with the more flexibility than most previous implementations.

To shoot down one example- OS/2 certainly had good ergonomics with the WarpCenter, but zip for extensibility.  Usually, apps didn't bother seeking the same level of presentation (mostly a sign of the times; today, every app, no matter how trivial, seems to demand its own odd-shaped window or 'remote control' dock/tray app); I think I remember one ICQ client that claimed to change its desktop icon based on status, but 1. I never got that to work, and 2. I have no idea if it was a cheap hack or a relatively sane API call.

If I had to call hiatus on AmiDock for anything, it might be for perpetuating the 'everything a [file|object], some objects dockies' arrangement, rather than shooting straight towards 'everything a docky, some dockies can hold/present files.'  I have no idea what the code looks like, so it's probably quite feasible to switch over to that approach/probably arranged internally that way, anyway.

I should also note that, once we all have videowalls (literally; I give it 20 years or so, maybe 50 before we can actually put up displays *exactly* like wallpaper- insert horrific Windows Powered 'Blue Room' visions here), user-positioned windows do become less of an issue... in tradeoff, if you think 'skins' and aesthetic candy are a problem *now*...  Well, hopefully we'll see more stuff in the vein of e-mail fishtanks (props to DALiworld) and network-monitoring cricket chirps.

---

[Edited after I posted the main glob with my browser on the brink of crashing, and refreshed my understanding of Commodities.]

As to commodities- I was wondering about that in the back of my mind, myself.  If I understand things properly, commodities.library is simply about allowing background I/O - though I'm not quite sure what "background I/O" means, in this case.  Application.library does sound like it could become a bit monolithic if left unchecked, but on the other hand, it could equally be 'just' the routines required to interface neatly/consistently to the OS at large... and if it does become a "system API in a box," at least there'd *be* a definite API?
 

Offline Rogue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 566
    • Show only replies by Rogue
    • http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2003, 03:41:28 PM »
Quote
Application library appears to clone functionallity in commodities.


No. Commodities is a way to install custom input handlers into the input.device's even stream.  Application.library is something different.

Quote
Is iffparse.library and ENV not standard in AmigaOS?


No. There is no standard on the Amiga. Some programs store their settings in S:, others in ENV:, and others in the application's own directory.  To the best of my knowledge, only IPrefs stores its settings as IFF in ENV: Others do whatever they feel like. Application.library is meant to provide a standarized way to do this.

Quote
Applications.library doesn't seem to have been well thought out at all; certainly it seems more like a 3rd party tool than an OS component.


Your highly-acclaimed commodities library *did* start out as a 3rd pary tool (on a fish-disk, I think somewhere around 50 or so, if you know what that is), and is now an OS component. Application.library is as much an OS component as e.g. datatypes.
Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline blubbe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 268
    • Show only replies by blubbe
    • http://somewhere.in-hell.com
Re: AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2003, 04:43:13 PM »
@Rouge

Quote

No. There is no standard on the Amiga. Some programs store their settings in S:, others in ENV:, and others in the application's own directory. To the best of my knowledge, only IPrefs stores its settings as IFF in ENV: Others do whatever they feel like. Application.library is meant to provide a standarized way to do this.


So you mean, introducing yet another way to do it,
is setting a standard ??

And shouldnt a new standard be a better one ?

How about taking some time to read up on that
"old" and "outdated" IFF that already exists.

Not saying its the best there is, but a good starting point.

And btw.. Here is all the .prefs files in my ENV:Sys
(IFF)

  ahi.prefs                        font.prefs
  fullpalette.prefs           input.prefs
  locale.prefs                  midi.prefs
  palette.prefs                 printer.prefs
  printergfx.prefs           screenmode.prefs
  wbconfig.prefs             WBPattern.prefs
i      i     i    i   i  i iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii i  i   i    i     i     i      i