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[anarchic_teapot]

A real company with professional management could still come out with a real platform. DE isn't it. AmigaOS4 isn't it, unless it comes with real commercial-level applications.

I see what you mean,

It's more than I do. What on earth do you mean by a "real" company, Wayne? Your statement is all emotion and no supporting analysis, as far as I can tell.

[zee4]

I agree regarding money. ... In some respects however, I don't know that I buy it, because BeOS was on one hell of a good track, even after the money was gone.

From what I understand, the work involved in moving a 80's operating system, largely optimized in 680x0 assembler and relying on a bunch of custom chips, to whole new processor family and architecture, while updating, adding new features and still trying top be backwards compatable shouldn't be underestimated.

Basically they're almost building a new OS, abet they do a pattern to follow and maybe some of of the existing stuff can be used, but not much. I don't think this can be compared to OS3.1-3.5 or OS3.5-3.9 or even the improvments made to BeOS in it's last years.

In regards to DE, I think it *had* potential, but too bad REBOL beat them to it and has a much larger potential to move ahead on several platforms.

I think it's a bit early to write off a product that hasn't been finished yet.

[System]

What on earth do you mean by a "real" company, Wayne?

A real company with real professional management, not a garage effort run by people who appear to having impressing sounding titles and no real experience.

Real companies:
----
AT&T, IBM, Motorola, etcetera. (endless list)

Non-real companies
----
Ones who's only product is selling air, t-shirts, "magazine subscriptions" and licenses.

[Kay]

@Wayne:

Wow, you sure have written a lot of things which *almost* makes sense since I last dropped in. Your reasoning isn't too bad, but I don't quite agree with some of the premises you base it on. For example, you seem to think that the lack of the bloody T-shirt (damn I'm tired of the whining about the T-shirt) and the coupon is something permanent, while I think it is something which will be resolved as AInc's financial situation improves. Time will tell who is right. Anyway, following up on all of this is too much work for me, and I can't really be arsed with it anymore. I'll just say this:
*I think your hatred towards Amiga Inc is about as blind as the support from me and the other Club Amiga members.
*In time we'll hopefully know who was right. For now, I'll continue to support AInc, Hyperion, Eyetech and all the other companies which are attempting to revive the Amiga platform. I do this out of my own free will, and according to my own best judgement.

Kay

[System]

while I think it is something which will be resolved as AInc's financial situation improves.

No doubts here.  My problem is that this community, by in large, is extraordinarily fickle.  I think it will be absolutely moronic to see Amiga Inc to deliver a T-shirt after OVER A YEAR and watch the sheep fall into line and forget all about the hell it was to get it and the embarrassment on the mark of Amiga Inc.

Time will tell who is right

 I have never thought of it as a matter of right and wrong to be honest.  The actions of Amiga Inc are documented, and they would embarrass ANY company.  There's no debate there.  The difference is really whether you fit into the 20%, or the 60%...

[Kay]

> The difference is really whether you fit into the 20%, or the 60%...

Heh, I refuse to be in either group, as I don't agree with the categorization at all. Specifically:
* I don't agree with the relative sizes of the partitions.
* I don't agree with the way they are defined. In my opinion, the absolute opponents are just as blind as the absolute proponents.
* I don't quite agree with where you've placed yourself. :-P (Sorry, that's my opinion)

Categorize this if you must:
* I am not particularly impressed with what they've achieved so far.
* I am not particularly appalled either.
* I think they are doing their best under difficult circumstances.
* I see no need to make their circumstances worse.
* Based on what little communication I've had with them, they seem to be nice people.
* They seem to have the approximately the same goals as I do, thus I want them to succeed.
* I firmly believe in the saying "It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness" (a Norwegian proverb, don't know if there is an English equivalent).

Kay

[Paul_Gadd]

What the hell has Amiga Inc done to deserve such a hugh loyal fan base? they should support the users and not the other way around.

A club so people can pay a nice little fee for information from a company, does anyone really think a company should charge for info?

Jul 29, 2002: "This is the ultimate Amiga scam, everyone should not join" - Luca, MA United States,USA

[System]

Hey Paul,

You REALLY didn't need to change your avatar.  I didn't really mean it.  Besides, if you change your avatar, you'll have to stop acting that way, and I am not prepared to change mine.

Wayne

[System]

I don't agree with the relative sizes of the partitions.

The 20/20/60 rule is a standard quotient in organized two-sided debate.  The object is, in this case which "side" will win over how much of that 60% who are still lingering in the middle.  How you or I feel or "agree" is irrelevant.

I don't agree with the way they are defined. In my opinion, the absolute opponents are just as blind as the absolute proponents.

Never intended to say that they aren't.  Once again, as usual in the Amiga community, things are being read into statements which aren't there to begin with.

Sorry, that's my opinion

You're welcomed to it  Seriously.  I have no problem with where you wish to interpret people's stance as long as you honestly realize that you may, or may not always be right..  That being said, after 8 years of running this site, 5 years of BillCo, and 4 years before that running BBS's to support this community, I've EARNED my position and I know where I stand.  That to me is all that matters.

* I am not particularly impressed with what they've achieved so far.
* I am not particularly appalled either.

Thanks for the admission.  That's more than most of the "red troll side" (not suggesting you are one) will ever admit to.

* I think they are doing their best under difficult circumstances.

Politely but extremely disagreed.  Now that DE has continually failed (how many "partners" does it take to screw over DE?)  their success and immediate survival based on their ability to win over this community.  (That is, if you don't consider them property of Microsoft as most do)  So far, they seem content to ignore the community and invent excuses for doing so.

* I see no need to make their circumstances worse.

Neither do I, but, the major difference in your list between you and me is that I am not prepared to sit here watch this community be torn apart by the completely non-existent community relations they are performing (and in my mind, more of Fleecy spouting 1/2 truths and marketing doesn't count).  It appears by all means that they are ACTIVELY trying to destroy the Amiga community and this is something that *I* will fight tooth and nail against with every grain of my being.

* Based on what little communication I've had with them, they seem to be nice people.

I've had extensive communication with them, and I agree that they are nice people.  They are not however good businessmen, and they are, in my opinion, not acting in the best interest of either themselves or the Amiga community at large.

* They seem to have the approximately the same goals as I do

I think everyone here has the exact same goals as Amiga Inc.  To get paid for doing absolutely nothing.  This is, after all, the ONLY thing they're doing.

* I firmly believe in the saying "It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness"

Good proverb, and actually relevant.  The problem as seen by the middle is two-fold;

1) It's constantly raining in Amiga-land
2) every time someone gets a candle lit, they don't like what they see and Amiga Inc comes along trying their damnedest to blow it out.

In the end, I think you and I are a lot more alike than certain people are willing to admit.  I do not wish anyone to fail but unlike most on the Amiga zealot side, the difference is that I'm not going to pretend that the smoke AI is constantly trying to "blow up my arse" doesn't smell like s***.

Wayne

[redfox]

Well guys, as one of those people who plunked down $50 US, I get to read the online Club Amiga Magazine.

In all fairness, I found the following articles to be very interesting:
 - The AmigaOne Experience by Rose Humphrey, Feb issue
 - The AmigaOne Experience by Ross Vumbaca, March issue
 - AmiDock and application.library in AmigaOS 4 by Stefan Robl, March issue
 - AmigaInput - The new Gaming API for AmigaOS by Steffen Haeuser, April issue


Is there any breaking news? .......... go have :pint: ... you haven't missed anything yet.

-------------------------
redfox

[redfox]

The $50 US membership/coupon/t-shirt/magazine subscription thing was a SCAM ..........    :-x

-----------------
redfox

[Spidey]

Hello everybody,

There's happened a lot in this news post after I posted my stuff!

@everybody
It's clear there's much disagreement about the 50 Euro/dollar coupon. Otherwise this news post wouldn't be so big with input from all sides (pro/negative/neutral)

@people giving summary of the CAM
Thank you very much! :-)

@SlimJim
You've got a good point about the part that people who paid (like me) should speak up towards Amiga Inc. It's after all our money given because Amiga Inc said that the boards would be available in a very short time, and I paid this money in June in the year of 2002!!!!!!!
This leads me to a piece of Kay's post

@Kay

..........For example, you seem to think that the lack of the bloody T-shirt (damn I'm tired of the whining about the T-shirt) and the coupon is something permanent, while I think it is something which will be resolved as AInc's financial situation improves. Time will tell who is right.

It's ofcourse clear that Amiga Inc. have some troubles with their finance, otherwise we surely would have those t-shirts already!
But the point is: Was Amiga Inc. already in financial problems when they asked money from us last year or not?!!?
Because then it's clear for everybody what Amiga Inc. is as a company. (fill in by yourself)
But if Amiga Inc. got financial problems AFTER the 50 Euro/dollar coupon-deal, why didn't they tell everybody what happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's really that simple!
So Kay, you've written this part about "...AInc's financial situation improves...." from your own feeling and thinking (always good ofcourse :-)), but this has more implications for AInc. What if all those who paid (someone said over a 1000) would go to sue AInc. Do you think Amiga Inc. would survive it?

I'll give you my personal feeling about this:
I think that Amiga Inc. would survive it! But then they would drop the Amiga community officially and go on making stuff for what they are doing now at this moment, pocketpc's!
Somewhere else I mentioned the following (a summary):

Who do you trust more:

- A company with a new product for a small community. To survive they make stuff that has nothing to do with the targeted community.

Or:

- A company with a new product for a small communtiy. To survive they sell stuff that is part of their new product for this small community.

In clear words:

Amiga Inc. makes software for pocketpc's. This software should be available for this Amiga community when OS5 hits the street somewhere in....... So this has nothing to do with the community of now!

Or:

Genesi made a product for this community and they sell their hardware+software to a Scandinavian(?) company as settop box. In this way they are still in this community and every effort they make to make that piece of hardware better or a code in the software better comes available for this community.

I really think that Amiga Inc. will survive WITHOUT the support of this community, because they already are making something that has nothing to do with this community. Where as Genesi is relying on this community for their survival. Let's face it, how big is the market of settop boxes for a new company? They can make more profit if they sell the same stuff as desktops !

I really want to support Amiga, but not a company who makes only promises and not goods for this community.
Instead I've more trust in Hyperion/Eyetech! I sure would love to see the money I spent on Amiga Inc. did go to these guys, because they are the people who are making the real product and not Amiga Inc.!

As you know I made my decision in January after so many excuses about the delay and bought the Pegasos. From then until now Genesi delivered twice an update of their software, gave a bonus in the last one: a little Tetris-clone and Voyager.
They told everybody about the Pegasos 2, clearly told everybody about their plans with Pegasos 1 (i.e. it is a startup board and that the Peg2 is the real thing for public). As far as I know they haven't told as many un-truth's as Amiga Inc. have done!

To make it clear, I made my decisions out of rational thinking (see the 2 company's part in this very long post :-)). I am one of the few in this community who did have only a physically real Amiga, no pc with a Amiga-emulator running or whatever. And yes, I'm proud of it. This doesn't mean however I have a problem with guys/girls who have a pc at home! :-)
I am just a guy who don't want a physically pc at home with Windows running in it. Instead I want to have a good emulator to run Windows!, because unfortunately our community isn't uptodate to the software standards of these times and Bill Gates has total dominionship over all that has to do with software standards, again unfortunately.
(this is a remark to software for general public and not for the professional market!)
I want a computer that has an efficient OS and not an OS for which you have to locate a computer for, because it is bloated like............(again, please fill in yourself).

I've made my choice to NOT sue Amiga Inc, for the money they got from me, but instead trying to get some of the promises they made, in this case the CAM. That is why I did post it in this news post (see almost at the beginning of this news post).

Hmmm, somewhere I lost my comments directly towards Kay, sorry Kay. :-)

Ok, this was a very big post with a lot of personal feelings in it. I guess it was brewing inside to come out :-)
I'll shut up about this subject from now on.

Spidey

ps: please people, if you want to reply on something in this post, remember, these are my personal feelings and don't take sentences apart to make a point or so. Please see the whole picture I wanted to give to you :-)

[SlimJim]

@Spidey
 
Reasonal post. But as I understand it, your main beef with
AInc (at least for the present time ;-)) is that you haven't
got access to the CAM despite being a member of the
club. Since it costs them nothing to add you, this sounds
only as an administrative hickup. Have you exhausted all
possibilities to contact AInc on this matter (no, I don't
know where to turn, since I never had the need)? HMetal
could perhaps point you in the right direction - send him a
PM on this site, perhaps?
.
SlimJim

[Alkemyst]

@Spidey

Sorry i dont think cant strust A = must strust B

I dont strust A or B atm, i trust C & D= Eyetech & Hyperion, wich i think have done alot for the community in the past & will do in the future.



Genesi have offered something that you wanted. but have not offered what most have wanted for many personal reasons.

If they had what most wanted then there would be alot less flaming.

You cant see the reasons for others not going the way you did, everyone has thier own reasons.

For me Eyetech & Hyperion are offering me what i want.

[Wilse]

@SlimJim:

The only unnesecary noice in here is really you and me -

An island of reason in a sea of mayhem and nonsense.  :-D

Thank you!

[Wilse]

The AmigaOne (I will refrain from my natural desire to call it what it is, the LinuxOne)

Well refrained.  ;-)