Latest Issue of Club Amiga Monthly Available Now

[System]

It's a club magazine,

Ok, without malice intended, someone needs to set things in stone.  Was it a $50 non-existent coupon, a $50 non-existent T-shirt, or a $50 magazine subscription?

If someone wanted to tell me that they honestly paid $50 for an Amiga magazine subscription, I'd stop bitching, but I still maintain my point about Amiga Inc's CONSTANT and debatably INTENTIONAL mishandling of community support.

[zee4]

A real company with professional management could still come out with a real platform. DE isn't it. AmigaOS4 isn't it, unless it comes with real commercial-level applications.

I see what you mean, I guess it still comes back down to not having a proper OS to tempt new developers with.

All the more reason for them to get OS4 done ASAP. I think we both know how tight money for tech start-ups is, especially ones trying to introduce "new" OSs.

Zoltan

[System]

@Zoltan

I agree regarding money.  It is indeed a big factor for those who expect to get paid.  In some respects however, I don't know that I buy it, because BeOS was on one hell of a good track, even after the money was gone.

In regards to DE, I think it *had* potential, but too bad REBOL beat them to it and has a much larger potential to move ahead on several platforms.

[Hooligan_DCS]

@Wayne

Ok, without malice intended, someone needs to set things in stone. Was it a $50 non-existent coupon, a $50 non-existent T-shirt, or a $50 magazine subscription?

Exactly. And if I had even a slightest hope for OS4 and AmigaOne arriving in near future then, I'd have payed.  After all these months, luckily I didn't.

[MarkTime]

Personally,

I don't know what these Amiga cheerleaders want from us....we have a huge ugly problem in the company of Amiga, Inc...and we are all supposed to just chat politely ignoring all problems at all times.

I applaud this straight talk....its good.  

People say, if we don't like Amiga, why are we here....exactly.  Exactly.

We all like the Amiga community, its why we are here, but Amiga, Inc. has to be discussed.  It's a problem when a technology company has made more money selling online magazine subscriptions than they have selling technology.

People bought the $50 promotion, because it was a $50 dollar off coupon for the going to be released almost immediately AmigaONE.  

Amiga, Inc. sold it as a 'measurement of interest'...they said they needed to know 'how many boards to produce'

Anything else said now, is just re-writing history.
The beat-me, abuse me, take my money again crowd, is doing a disservice to all those people that got their money stolen by this company.  You can donate your $50 if you want, but you are making it harder for those who got ripped off to have their voices heard.  It's irresponsible of you to do it. IMHO

[z5]

My view on (S)cam:

AmigaInc needed money desparately. So they had this great plan: where do you get money from? Ofcourse, from those mad amiga users, where else. I mean, they have been waiting and been lied to so many years now, it won't hurt to do it once more.

Ofcourse, they had nothing with their DE (coming real soon now), so they had to bring OS4 into it because Hyperion and their team are probably the only ones who will eventually deliver something. It is public knowledgde that their coupon idea had nothing to do with either Eyetech or Hyperion.

Not only did they rip people off, they also brought two companies in discredit with their master plan.

So where it the proof? Tell me one thing: how does a company who just ripped $50000 from loyal amigans, doesn't manage to print a t-shirt? Well, there is only one anwser ofcourse, the $50000 is gone.

What i find the most embarassing for AmigaInc is the way they are pretending that they have done something for OS4 (Fleecy answered my question on this by saying that they helped to define Amiga Generation 2 hardware, whatever that may be). So in other words, they have done nothing.

And quite frankly, i find it pretty embarassing that people have to pay to get information.

[SlimJim]

Anything else said now, is just re-writing history.
The beat-me, abuse me, take my money again crowd, is
doing a disservice to all those people that got their money
stolen by this company. You can donate your $50 if you
want, but you are making it harder for those who got
ripped off to have their voices heard. It's irresponsible of
you to do it. IMHO

 
Certainly it can be argued that
AInc didn't hold to their promises (whether this was out of
malice or not is open to opinion, but irrelevant when
considering the fact that time has invariably outrun the
goodwill of some of the buyers). By all means, the people
not having such an benevolent view on the lack of
delivery from AmigaInc, should make their voices heard -
they have certainly paid for their right to do so.
 
But the thing is that if you follow your own chain of logic,
it's is just as unfair not to hear the people with the
positive view as well. They too have paid for their right to
talk about it. It's their money on the line.
 
The only unnesecary noice in here is really you and me -
the people who haven't paid a dime in AInc:s coupon
scheme, but still tries to tell the people who *have* paid,
what they should think about it. We - and in the case of
the people having legit claims on AmigaInc, 'we' means
those among all us non-payers talking about the coupon
scheme as if they were personally swindled (not referring
to you personally here, please note) - are much
more responible for overpowering the voices among us
that DO have actual monetary reason to shout.  
 
I'm not promoting that people like you and I should not
have an opinion, by the way (actually I don't give a damn
about the coupons as such, but oh well) - I only
countercomment your idea that the "noice" is coming from
[still] supportive buyers when in reality people from the
sidelines (be they positive or negative) are really the
noicemakers.
 
The people wanting refunds ought to start demanding it of  
AInc, or sue them. If they want to come across in the
forums, they just have to either post well-reasoned posts
or shout higher that everybody else (this seems to be
the most commonly used operating procedure for anti-AInc
posts of any kind, oddly enough). What most easily blends
into the background noice is up to each and every
person to decide ...
.
SlimJim

[System]

I'm not saying any of that. Not at all. A real company with professional management could still come out with a real platform. DE isn't it. AmigaOS4 isn't it, unless it comes with real commercial-level applications.

Sega failed with dreamcast, I guess they where a fake company and/or unprofessional management. And every other computer or console platform that has failed has been developed by fake companies and/or real companies with unprofessional management? Because it takes about as much time (maybe, we don't know yet, it's not finished, and might not ever be) developing an OS for new hardware as it does for modern games?

/steffo

[System]

@Slim,

While I agree with the vast majority of what you both said, there's a third element here.  There are people such as the admins here (myself included) as well as Christian, Petra, and others who, for years, have supported the Amiga and the Amiga community.  In those specific cases, those few have EARNED their right to speak by fire.  

There is a growing trend however in the community to polarize into the "you're either with me, or against me" crowd which leaves no room for the MAJORITY of Amiga community members who're already using up-to-date systems and are simply curious to see what's coming next.  Those are the people who will make or break the Amiga, not the Zealots.

Think about this.  Right now, if popular debate tactics hold true, 20% are absolute blind proponents, 20% are absolute opponents.  That leaves 60% of the community that Amiga Inc are completely ignoring and a much larger part of the audience that is simply sitting back and laughing at every embarrassing, stupid mistake they make.  I still consider myself part of that 60% who is curious, but is not impressed by anything they're doing.

Wayne

[zee4]

So where it the proof? Tell me one thing: how does a company who just ripped $50000 from loyal amigans, doesn't manage to print a t-shirt? Well, there is only one anwser ofcourse, the $50000 is gone.

@z5:
Actually there was a bit over a thousand coupons sold, so it's more than that.

Though untill the AmigaOne/OS4 starts shipping you can't really say you where (assuming you invested) ripped-off.

Zoltan
www.ZEE4.com

[System]

@steffo,

I have no idea what you're saying.  Sega's Dreamcast and every other system is different from what has happened with Amiga Inc.  Unlike Amiga Inc, Sega actually had products.  Remember, Amiga Inc HAS ZERO PRODUCTS unless you count AmigaDE/Anywhere/whateverit'scalledthisweek.  Their only concern seems to be licensing a name and making up kitchy little catch phrases such as "Amiga Generation 2".

Back to the point....  Sega could have easily spent money developing the next level of hardware.  After at least three different rounds of competing with Nintendo and now Microsoft, Sega made a GOOD BUSINESS DECISION to remove themselves from the hardware arena and concentrate on what they were good at... Writing games.  

Am I the only one that remembers "Amiga Inc is a software company" -- Bill McEwen (numerous times)

[System]

@wayne

I admit it. I was just nitpicking actually. But I do think that good companies with good management has failed, but with products in their product line that is. And AInc has so far not failed with any products on the market. (We have several cases of good products for very obscure reasons losing against worse products). Some things can't be controlled, but actually getting a product done actually can. So I actually agree a lot with you. I guess I'm just an asshole

[SlimJim]

@Wayne
 
My point was not that anyone should have any bigger (or
lesser) right to have an opinion about events than anyone
else. If it came across as such, well, I didn't intend it to.
My point was that if any voices should be considered
more "noice" than others, it were to be those not
having club money on the line. And in that respect that
includes even people having done bucketloads for the
community such as you and other webmasters/
developers/etc.
 
As for the "camp mentality", I agree. As usual, there are
so many emotions flying around that debate easily gets
polarized into "factions" and "camps". The problem is that
such factions ought really to be temporary constellations,
lasting for a thread or so, when groups of people happen
to agree/disagree simultaneoulsy. Nowadays the camps
are created artificially, even when the discussion doesn't
warrant it (or doesn't even touch the same subject). The
"camps" have taken on a life of their own, influencing the
way people are judging other people's comments even
outside the actual hot subjects.

It's too bad. But sometimes I wonder if there would have
been any life left at all in the Amiga world had we not have
had such controversy to discuss. That we'll never
know.
.
SlimJim

[zee4]

There is a growing trend however in the community to polarize into the "you're either with me, or against me" crowd which leaves no room for the MAJORITY of Amiga community members who're already using up-to-date systems and are simply curious to see what's coming next. Those are the people who will make or break the Amiga, not the Zealots.

Sounds kind of certain politician

I agree though, It's one of things that bugs me about what happened to the Amiga community, probably only in the last few years with Gateway.  Reading about them (Gateway) becoming a joke in the industry does does give me a smile still- they deserve it.

I do think that a lot of this comes from being stuck past, I just hope that the middle-60% can turn the community around once there is something new to talk about.

I mean, if you think about it, if anyone here is using an Amiga still we're talking about some pretty ancient stuff; I was taking apart a P2 last week and relized that for all the dust and odd-ball parts in there, this P2 was newer than my then-top-of-the-line A1200HD/030.

We really need some new hardware guys!

[System]

@steffo,

I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that at all, simply that there are things here which should not be forgiven, forgotten, or swept under the rug.  The Amiga and community are just two things I am very passionate about expressing myself.

Wayne

[anarchic_teapot]

A real company with professional management could still come out with a real platform. DE isn't it. AmigaOS4 isn't it, unless it comes with real commercial-level applications.

I see what you mean,

It's more than I do. What on earth do you mean by a "real" company, Wayne? Your statement is all emotion and no supporting analysis, as far as I can tell.