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Author Topic: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'  (Read 4602 times)

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Offline SilvrDrgnTopic starter

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Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« on: March 07, 2003, 02:21:35 PM »
Windows Server 2003 will bring an end to one of the biggest bugbears for Windows users and administrators, according to Microsoft. The problem, which relates to Dynamic Link Libraries, has become an increasing headache over the years.

I can see it now.  Microsoft will call this a brand new feature.  Brainwashing will follow for pushing everyone into thinking they invented this "new feature" that's actually been in use for years on other systems.  The end of the article also mentions another "feature" called xcopy deploy.  Gee, another idea that's already existed for years.

Source: CNet News.com Full Article

Michael
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2003, 03:26:17 PM »
Well, gee, it's not as if Microsoft were amongst the worst culprits at writing 'newer' dlls that broke existing ones, is it ? :lol:
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Offline KennyR

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2003, 03:28:59 PM »
From what I read in this article, Microsoft are just about to do one of their favourite coding pastimes - making something simpler by making it more complicated. That is, at the end-user level something seems simple, but deeper down it's a complete mess. So in return for making things easier at one sight, there is now a thousand things more that can go wrong.

Microsoft have been doing this since MS-DOS. The What kind of people code for them? Jellybrains? Idiots? People who just don't care? I mean, why keep kludging this piece of crap they call an OS with half-baked fixes like this? It's not even in the name of compatibility, in this case. It's just f'ing stupid.

Everyone knows the best way to keep track of shared runtime libraries is to KEEP THEM ALL IN THE SAME PLACE, not tag them in some binary list where a million things can go wrong. That's just dumb, dumb, dumb! And you can keep a list of loaded DLLs in memory with version strings. Amiga did this in '82. Microsoft won't ever figure out that the most efficient way sometimes really is the best way. That's why their software will always suck.
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2003, 03:33:17 PM »
I reckon they should create one HUGE Windows DLL, call it Windows.DLL, about 600 megs in size, and leave it at that :-)
 

Offline Stimpzilla

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2003, 03:36:13 PM »
Quote
I reckon they should create one HUGE Windows DLL, call it Windows.DLL, about 600 megs in size, and leave it at that  


What, only 600 Mb   :-o

Biggest joke of all, after the idea of M$ adopting something resembling efficient :-P

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Offline SilvrDrgnTopic starter

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2003, 03:37:37 PM »
@ KennyR,
Quote
It's just f'ing stupid.

Agreed.  What's more stupid?  The Windows Registry!  Whoever thought up that idea should be shot.
Michael
 

Offline olegil

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2003, 04:04:48 PM »
Hmm, so basically they are just now coming up with REALLY complicated ways to solve what ALL others have solved before them. And all in all the biggest part of the problem is that dll's still are named in 8.3 fashion. On Unix systems the version number is part of the file name, so you only open the right version, never one too old or too new... On AmigaOS a library can be put in PROGDIR: as well as LIBS:, and you can request specified limits on what versions can be loaded. My god those people at Microsoft are way behind.

Oh, and the whole thing about copying instead of reinstalling, I can't imagine why they didn't just shoot whoever designed the original system in the first place.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2003, 04:11:02 PM »
It's not in M$ interest to make Windows work well... if it did how will they sell the next one?
That is my biggest argument against commercial Operating systems, keep the OS free and charge for drivers and applications.

They use the same marketing campagn every windows release;
"This one actually works, will crash less often and has less bugs than the last one"

I really can't belive that a company can sell 6 products all with exactly the same marketing ideas...

Imagine if Boeing did the same;
"This new plane will crash less often..." :-D

Offline bloodline

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2003, 04:14:58 PM »
Quote
I can't imagine why they didn't just shoot whoever designed the original system in the first place.


Do you really think Bill Gates would shoot himself?


hahahaha, no I don't really believe Billy boy designed any of Windows, but he does list himself as Cheif Architect, so he can take the blame. :-P

Offline Casper

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2003, 04:42:12 PM »
@olegil
Quote
And all in all the biggest part of the problem is that dll's still are named in 8.3 fashion.


Hate to defend MS here, but no, they're not. Dll names can be the same length as any other file in Windows.
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2003, 06:08:49 PM »
Quote
That is my biggest argument against commercial Operating systems, keep the OS free and charge for drivers and applications.

Here, here.  My impression is that the OS itself is a fairly small and simple part of the whole system.  It's the shell, interface, and desktop that has all the complicated stuff, in respective, increasing complexity.

It should be noted that DLL hell was caused by a coding style, not a technology.  The idea of shared libraries was a good one back when machines were largely proprietary, and contained many applications from the same vendor (like MS).  These days, you have hundreds of background tasks running simultaniously, and hardware is cheap.  Getting that many vendors to coexist is impossible.  You might as well let them manage their own libraries, and just shut 'em down if they do something stupid (and tell the user WHY!)

Technically, you should be able to use an older Windows DLL simply by having it in the same folder as the application, which overrides the new version in the system folder.  Of course, MS doesn't like this.

My favorite thing about Amiga and Mac software is the fact it doesn't have to be installed, put tons of files in the system folder, or be put in a specific place.  Just copy it to the hard drive and run it wherever you want.  Lots of Amiga and Mac apps run right from removable disks without any installation required.  Good system security might be more difficult to implement that way, but for a single user system that's the best way to make software.

Besides, sharing files these days isn't really meant for libraries, anymore.  If an application needs outside resources, they are usually copied seperately by a 3rd party installer and run like applications or over TCP/IP, like media players, database servers, and other background tasks.
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2003, 06:11:38 PM »
Quote
Hate to defend MS here, but no, they're not. Dll names can be the same length as any other file in Windows.

True.  Again, it's a coding style, not a technology.  A lot of people still choose to use 8.3 naming, but they don't have to.

My guess is that they are either overly traditional, outlandishly stupid, or trying to intentionally keep things cryptic, for whatever reason.  For a lot of the proprietary systems I use at work, reason #3 is often more true than you'd think!   :-?
 

Offline carls

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2003, 06:26:08 PM »
Wasn't this about "end DLL hell" something they said about Win2K and WinXP, too? :-D
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Offline Madgun68

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2003, 07:59:00 PM »
@carls:

They claimed they were focusing on security too.. :-o
......
 

Offline carls

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Re: Microsoft promises end to 'DLL hell'
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2003, 09:23:50 PM »
Yes, and stability ;-)
Amiga: Too weird to live, too rare to die.