Genesi: Update regarding the change to the Pegasos-II

[System]

Well, actually I don't care what you're sick of, and I don't appreciate you telling me to shut up.

If you can't figure out using common sense that MorphOS is illegal, it is you that needs to shut up.

You people are no better than H&P screwing Bernie.
Bernie had the rights to build Amithlon, Genesi does not have the rights to build from Amiga code.

And I couldn't care any less about the way you feel about me as an intelligent thinker.
I don't need your approval.

[AmiGR]

No, it's you that needs to know when to shut up,
cause when the OWNER of some IP can't prove that
a product is illegal, hardly anybody can. BTW, if
Genesi was Amiga Inc or Harald Frank you would be
sued by now.

[System]

Heh...

I think if someone tried to sue me, they would be in for one heck of a surprise.

 :-o

and furthermore...
I'm not going to be sued over the truth.
Now am I?

[AmiGR]

Prove your claims that MOS has been based on
Amiga source code you idiot. Can you? NO, you CANNOT.
Even Ben Hermans, who is a LAWYER couldn't.
Amiga Inc COULDN'T! Will YOU be able to do so?
I REALLY don't think so.
BTW, I wonder if you would say the same if you knew
what happened with the Amiga Inc-bPlan case where
people blame laire for not giving MOS to A. Inc...
I also wonder what you would do if Amiga Inc didn't
want to develop AmigaOS, MorphOS was started at
such a time.

[Frodon]

Hello Mountain_Myst,

As far as proving that MorphOS is illegal.
Don't have to.
Everybody with any sense knows it.

You don't need proof.
All you need to know is that it's true.

Sorry the life is not that simple. And so are not the things in the computer world.
At the beginning I thought it wasn't possible that MorphOS is legal (lot of months ago. Because I just used my "common sense") but since that time I informed myself and I saw that it wasn't so simple in the reality and I realised that in fact MorphOS is perfectly legal.

I'll not blaim you to not have informed yourself enough to realise that. But don't claim that what you think is the truth. As in that case it's not The common sense doesn't work for everything. Additionally common sense is a biased concept as it depends on how you see the world. But as you know the laws are not made by you, but by the governements

Regards

[AmiGR]

As long as you can't prove your truth, it's a truth only
according to your brain, not according to any law
in the universe. The most basic law in EVERY country
is that everyone is innocent until prooved other wise.
It is illegal to break that.

[System]

Ok...
Ok...

Let's tone it down a little bit.

Let me make this statement, and you analize it for me.

Either MorphOS is illegal with Amiga code, or MorphOS is an Amiga emulator.

Which will you say is closer to truth?
After all, wouldn't you agree that the makers of MorphOS shouldn't be using amiga code?

[AmiGR]

Neither. MorphOS is an OS on which A/Box runs, an
AROS based AmigaOS API clone that includes many
improvements over the original API. Not everything is
based on AROS, exec and other stuff are Ralph's work.

[Paul_Gadd]

MorphOS is illegal.

Please post proof for this claim as this looks like a plot to sabotage Genesi and hurt it so badly they will go bust.

[System]

Ok.

Well don't you agree that in order to build an enviornment that acts exactly like another OS, you would actually have to look at origional code in order to understand how that OS works?

If this were not the case, how would you get your enviornment to run all the software that runs on that OS?

[downix]

Either MorphOS is illegal with Amiga code, or MorphOS is an Amiga emulator.

How about c)  None of the abova.

MorphOS is a clone, like AROS is.  AROS is hardly an emulator, I can assure you.  Neither is OpenBeOS an emulator of BeOS.  Neither is Linux an emulator of UNIX System 5 Release 4.

These OS's are CLONES.  They duplicate a systems API's in order to allow them to run the applications either natively or recompiled.  Cloning is common, cloning is good.  Even AmigaOS built on TripOS, an old UNIX clone.  So you're claiming that AmigaOS is illegal and had to be using AT&T UNIX source code just to exist now, by that arguement.

[System]

They duplicate a systems API's in order to allow them to run the applications either natively or recompiled

yes.

And how would you duplicate code that you've never looked at?

and also, look up the definition for the word "duplicate".
and also look up the definition for the word "clone".

[System]

@ AmiGR

Amiga Inc COULDN'T!

Nobody at Amiga Inc ever claimed that they could not prove this. Based on the things I know personally, I would have gone the offensive road to protect the Amiga IP, if I owned it.

IMO the Amiga IP (patents, source code, brand, etc) must be aggressively protected. Amiga Inc had their reasons to wait, but IMO this approach is running out of arguments.

Only a court can give a decisive answer.

[AmiGR]

The AmigaOS is EXTREMELY well documented.
Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, is explained in
the autodocs and the programmer books. All the
functions, what they do and how they do it, can be found. With Windows, it would be difficult,  not even
half of the OS is documented while AmigaOS
programmers have access to everything.

[Frodon]

Hello Mountain_Myst,

Well don't you agree that in order to build an enviornment that acts exactly like another OS, you would actually have to look at origional code in order to understand how that OS works?

If this were not the case, how would you get your enviornment to run all the software that runs on that OS?

I'm in contact with the OpenBeOS Team which are exactly doing what you say: An OS that look exactly like BeOS and is fully source and binary compatible with.
I can tell you they don't use the BeOS sources at all and they can't as they can't have them. They simply use the BeOS Bible and lot of the other developpers documentation of BeOS.

You know how work an OS. The apps to communicate with the system use the OS APIs. What are APIs? It's an amount of tools/functions you use in your program to use some system services.
And for that you use the OS includes which are publicly available developpment elements (For Amiga int he Native Development Kits (NDK)). What are there is the OS includes?

- The tools/functions names
- The arguments they take
- The result returned

Even with just that you can reimplement an API. As you just have to recreate a program that have the same tools/functions with the same names, taking the same arguments and returning the same result.

Additionally if you don't really understand enough how the tools/function(s) work(s) to reimplement them, there are all the public development book (like the Rom Kernel Manuals) available that are explaining better what the purpose of each functions. All this together is far enough to reimplement APIs of an OS and so make a compatible OS with the original one.

I've seen proof of that many times, mainly in the BeOS world (with all the BeOS clones actually developped) and of course also in the Amiga world with AROS and MorphOS. If you want to check about OpenBeOS that they didn't use the sources of BeOS, just email them about that, you can find an email address in http://www.openbeos.org/

Regards

[AmiGR]

Oh come on, Amiga In just does NOT have the money to sue.
If they did, they would pay their employees and would
show up in court when one of these employees sued
them not to let the court make the default decision..
Don't pretend not to know what I'm talking about.
Moreover, their lawyers wouldn't pull out of court all
the time.