Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship September 2003

[Herewegoagain]

They could. But it doesn't make sense just to give them a CPU card so that people can feel good when you know that there could be much more speed if there was another NB. It would be unfair to all of those who want the real speed of the G4 CPU.

LOL!  It's so funny to hear all of this now.  Before this announcement the Pegasos was "all that, and a bag of chips".  Now it's dumping the current chipset because it's so buggy they cannot get the real speed of the G4 CPU!!!!  Please stop trying to make excuses for Genesi and Pegasos.  It's not the worst thing that they are redesigning it.  But please at least be willing to look at all of the companies involved Eyetech, Mai, IBM, Terrasoft, etc... and they are not having these problems that the Pegasos is having.  Just for once admit that it could inherently be a design flaw in the original Pegasos board.  It wouldn't be a crime, and certainly not the first time this sort of thing has happened.  

People on "both sides", please listen.  These boards are new and in the greater scheme of things, RELATIVELY UNTESTED in everyday use.  That's not to say completely untested, but problems will continue to arrise from both side as the user base grows.  The orignal Amiga's had issues that had to be worked on as well.  Genesi obviously see's a need to go back and redesign.  Good.  While they are at it, they will make improvements based upon what is currently available.  That makes sense.  This will likely happen in the next revision of AmigaOnes as well (it's already happened to a lesser extent).  Let's just see what the next few months hold for us all.  

This is good news in the long run.  As it ups the specs that AmigaOne systems will have to match.  Maybe the next version will use DDR and AGP4-8X and etc.  By this, Genesi are pushing Eyetech to start on the next big thing (if they haven't already).  That can only be good for us all.

[zacman]

>Now it's dumping the current chipset because it's
>so buggy they cannot get the real speed of the G4
>CPU

Look, MAI would be really happy to deliver chips for the new Pegasos and Pegasos-based hardware.

> But please at least be willing to look at all of the >companies involved Eyetech, Mai, IBM, Terrasoft

Yes, you're right IBM is really interested in the
current situation with the MAI chipsets.

[Herewegoagain]

Yes, you're right IBM is really interested in the
current situation with the MAI chipsets.

Are you trying to be sarcastic, or do you have inside info from IBM?  If IBM were so concerned and not satisfied over the quality of MAI's chips, why did the Articia S and Teron CX/PX boards just recieve "Ready for IBM Technology" validation from IBM itself?  And why are IBM listing MAI and their products on their website if it is so buggy?

[Dan]

I still speculate that MAI has pulled the plug on Genesi, mostly because of the eyetech contract.... If i were eyetech I would lean on MAI...

How? eyetech is not any bigger actor on the PPCmotherboardscene than Genesi
It probably as more todo with Genesis claims of bugs in the chipset i.e it´s between genesi and mai.

[System]

Well, if all this is true, then I guess the proper thing to do is see it go out in style.

(music starts)

(people stand in attention)

(Preacher speaks)

R.I.P.        Genesi
So long    Pegasos
Bye Bye   MorpOS

(music fades)

(Crowd starts to speak amongst one another...)

It was so young and full of energy.
How can this be?
It's such a tragedy.

First H&P, and now this.
When will it end?

 :-(

Crowd starts to disassemble and leave the building, but not without remembering what could have been.

Not without looking upon it one last time.

Bye...

We love you...

 :-(

and so ends another episode of "The last Amiga".

Be sure to tune in later for the following episode...

"Pegasos II"

You really don't want to miss it.
It's really a show stopper.

[Dan]

What about the STB then, will that be Pegasos2 based now?

[downix]

What about the STB then, will that be Pegasos2 based now?

The STB was never Pegasos 1 or 2 based, but an independent product that happens to use many components from other Genesi products, such as the Cashboy and ComCam, and even components from the Pegasos design, but never the Pegasos itself.  The components used are not affected by this decision.

[downix]

Are you trying to be sarcastic, or do you have inside info from IBM? If IBM were so concerned and not satisfied over the quality of MAI's chips, why did the Artica S and Teron CX/PX boards just recieve "Ready for IBM Technology" validation from IBM itself? And why are IBM listing MAI and their products on their website if it is so buggy?

Nobody ever said that the Mai chip was so buggy as to be unusable.  By being usable in some manner, even if in a limited fashion, Mai could pass the worst piece of crap imaginable.  Mai's chipset passed IBM's minimum requirements, namely 32 address pins and 33Mhz local bus.

[Herewegoagain]

Nobody ever said that the Mai chip was so buggy as to be unusable. By being usable in some manner, even if in a limited fashion, Mai could pass the worst piece of crap imaginable.

Not said in so few words, but read the crap Senex is spewing on about April2 and April3, the chip is so difficult to mount to the board (maybe they should let the far Eastern company do it for them since it's so hard)  I thought they were expert designers, and they complain the chip is too hard to mount to the board?

Mai's chipset passed IBM's minimum requirements, namely 32 address pins and 33Mhz local bus.

So you are saying this is all it takes to get the IBM approval?  I'll quote Lisa Su of IBM once again
.... R E A D   S L O W L Y...........

"MAI Logic has successfully developed optimized supporting devices and reference designs for PowerPCTM microprocessor application platforms which have passed a rigorous PowerPCTM compatibility validation testing process by IBM Microelectronics labs,"said Lisa Su, Director of PowerPCTM and emerging products, IBM Microelectronics.

Note the part about
"a rigorous PowerPCTM compatibility validation testing process "

That doesn't sound like IBM looked at it and said "Hmm.  32 address pins and 33MHz PCI bus" BOOM! (stamp of approval sound)

It's always easy for people on Genesi's side to trivialize other peoples accomplishments and to raise their own into such high esteem.  But then again, I think your posts speak louder than what I'm trying to say.  Anyone who looks at this whole fiasco can pretty much sum up what's going on.   Genesi should not burn so many bridges, as they may need to cross the river again some day.

[anarchic_teapot]

How? eyetech is not any bigger actor on the PPCmotherboardscene than Genesi

Actually, as far as MAI is concerned, that's not true : Eyetech is their distributor for Europe for the Teron Linux boards, and worldwide for the AmigaOne.
However, knowing Alan, I doubt he bothered to lean on MAI: BB is apparently quite capable of screwing up a business relationship by himself, without outside help.

[anarchic_teapot]

So you don't remember that MAI denied the first bug  too? Only after a long period of time they said that they can reproduce it and also only because Mr Carda was in Fremont, CA for two weeks...

I don't recall any denial. I do recall Mr Carda going out there and installing MOS on a Teron so that everyone could find out where the problem was. (That was what gave rise to "MOS runs on A1" from certain quarters afterwards, neatly sidestepping the different-firmware issues, BTW).
For the remaining "bugs" the response has been "We've tried this, but we can't reproduce the alleged bug".

The Pegasos is not a Teron board, it is quite possible that problems might arise that in fact have little or nothing to do with the Articia itself, just as it's possible that problems might exist on the Teron board that wouldn't on the Pegasos. No matter how good the engineers, perfection is well-nigh unattainable. However, when a company - in whose interest it is to have as good a product as possible - spends time looking for supposed bugs, cannot reproduce them (I gather this time Mr Carda didn't bother flying out ?), many people will reasonably wonder if the problem is in fact with the mobo or firmware, rather than inherent in the chip itself.

However, all that aside, I find it frankly hilarious that Genesi are continuing to purchase Articia chips that still contain the old bugs - found back in Nov 2002 - rather than the new, bug-free chips that are currently going out on the new A1 boards.

As for the "real speed" of a G4 CPU, let's see some laboratory-condition benchmarks instead of blithe assertions.

[anarchic_teapot]

Also, as noted in the list, those owners of a Peg I can upgrade to a G4, by trading in their Peg I for a Peg II and paying the $200 for the G4 card (which was the original price anyways).

No they can't, because as of now the Pegasos II does not exist. If ever it does - this is computer land and AFAIK the Peg2 isn't even in betatest (if it were, this would have been trumpeted in the usual way) - it won't be for another 7 months by the most optimistic estimate.

[zacman]

>AFAIK the Peg2 isn't even in betatest

Sorry, but the Pegasos2 is 90% complete, in
Betatest and heavily tested by the Genesi
betatesters and only needs chipset integration!

[Herewegoagain]

Sorry, but the Pegasos2 is 90% complete, in
Betatest and heavily tested by the Genesi
betatesters and only needs chipset integration!

LOL!  You people just won't stop will you???  You  attack Hyperion when they say that OS 4 is well underway in beta testing, and blast them claiming it cannot be because the 68k JIT is not integrated yet.  Then you turn around and claim that the Pegasos II is already heavily tested by Genesi betatesters and only needs chipset integration!!!!  Did BB tell you this?  The chipset integration is where they had all of the problems with the original Pegasos!!!!

[Alkemyst]

Sorry, but the Pegasos2 is 90% complete, in
Betatest and heavily tested by the Genesi
betatesters and only needs chipset integration!

Now aint that strange! that counts

But (Aos4 is 90% complete, in
Betatest and heavily tested by the Hyperion &
betatesters and only needs Module integration!)Dont

[downix]

As for the "real speed" of a G4 CPU, let's see some laboratory-condition benchmarks instead of blithe assertions.

I said earlier I'd be willing to arrange such a test, providing I can find people with boards on both sides willing to lend them for a brief period.  Gotten some responces from Pegasos owners, none from AmigaONE owners.