Columbia Lost.

[minator]

This is a terrible tragedy, but alas this is the cost of progress.
I like AmiNTT have always been a bit of a space buff from when I was very little and agree these guys (and gals) are heroes.

Everyone sufferers risks of one kind or another every day, on the other hand Astronauts put themselves in much, much greater danger for the betterment of Human civilisation.  They have my utmost respect.

I'm very glad that President Bush said that despite this progress will continue.

--

Maybe if the budget didn't get cut year after year, we'd be working with something better than 1970s technology to go to and from orbit.

They use old technology on purpose, firstly everything has to be qualified for space (radiation resistance etc.) and they only use things which are tried and tested.  Using the latest tech would be a very risky move.  Consequently you'll probably still find things like 68000 CPUs in the Shuttle.

NASA take a tiny fraction of the US budget, perhaps this may actually get them more.

--


My condolences go to their Families, Friends and Colleagues.



Nicholas Blachford :-(

[System]

IRAQIS CALL SHUTTLE DISASTER GOD'S VENGEANCE February 2, 2003
 
 Reuters reports: “Immediate popular reaction in Baghdad on Saturday to the loss of the U.S. space shuttle Columbia and its seven-member crew -- including the first Israeli in space -- was that it was God's retribution.
‘We are happy that it broke up,’ government employee Abdul Jabbar al-Quraishi said.

‘God wants to show that his might is greater than the Americans. They have encroached on our country. God is avenging us,’ he said...

Car mechanic Mohammed Jaber al-Tamini noted Israeli air force Colonel Ilan Ramon was among the dead when the shuttle broke up over the southwestern United States 16 minutes before its scheduled landing.

The 48-year-old Israeli astronaut was a fighter pilot in the Israeli air force. He was the youngest pilot in a team that bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor in 1981. Israel said the reactor was intended to develop nuclear weapons.

‘Israel launched an aggression on us when it raided our nuclear reactor without any reason, now time has come and God has retaliated to their aggression,’ Tamini said.

There were no such signs of jubilation over the shuttle disaster in any of the Palestinian territories. The official response from the Palestinians was one of condolence.

‘President (Yasser) Arafat and the Palestinian Authority offer their condolences to the six American families and the Israeli family who lost their loved ones in the catastrophe,’ Saeb Erekat, a senior Palestinian official and spokesman, told Reuters.

Erekat said Arafat had sent President Bush a message of condolences over the loss of the NASA space agency's shuttle. The United States, Israel's closest ally, is the chief Middle East peace broker…”
 
 :-o

[System]

Like so many Israelis yesterday, I've stopped everything and turned on the TV, intending to see live the return of the Columbia and it's seven astronouts - among them one of our finest, who became these last few weeks almost a family member to every Israeli household.
I was watching Channel 2 - Ilan Ramon's old father sat at the table of the studio, waiting for his son to land, after making a small history and, once more, making him proud.
He was speaking about his son in a way only fathers do - a way that makes teenage boys a bit embaraced, and mumble "Cmmon, Dad, I'm not THAT great..."

And then the comm link broke.

---

It's hard for me to describe what I felt, but when I saw the old man's face changing from bliss to grief in an instant, I understood once more that despite everything else - that astronouts are dear to most of us; that almost all of us regret every innocent life that's lost (except a few Iraqis, if the above post is true); that for Israelis Ramon became a beloved hero - despite all of this, first and formost it's a loss to the families.
For them, nothing will be the same anymore.

I'm an Israeli, so I should be a bit more emune to tragedy - God knows I've seen enough - but tears are coming down my face as I write this.

---

We must continue the Space Program.
Not only for the things that we've already got from it, but mainly for the things that we have yet to gain.
We don't even know what they are, yet.

We must reach for the Stars.



Good night to you all.

Moshe Papismedov,
Israel

[System]

@Papissmed


Sorry about your loss.

I feel the same way that you feel.
I, personally think that Israel is a very special place, along with the people there.

Everytime I turn the television on, everyone is fighting over there.
I sure wished that everyone could forget about thier differences and love one another.

I wished that there was an easy way for peace.
I wished the world could live in peace forever, and love thier neighbors, but I guess that's just dreaming as long as I'm on this earth in this body of flesh.

One day though, I know Israel will be free, and other people will be too.  

 :-)

[cecilia]

‘God wants to show that his might is greater than the Americans. They have encroached on our country. God is avenging us,’ he said...

#### those scum. pardon my language - but dying as an astronaut is an honorable death. these people were talented and intelligent - unlike those losers who think  it's ok to throw planes through buildiings.

what the a-holes who lack logic and common sense like to forget is that death in space is actually rare. especially if you compare it to cars, taking drugs, etc. (that doesn't mean it's ever accepable).

[Billsey]

Poster: Mountain_Myst Date: 2003/2/2 17:06:25
@Papissmed
Sorry about your loss.
I feel the same way that you feel.

...

One day though, I know Israel will be free, and other people will be too.
 :-)

Amen. :-)

[System]

I still remember what I was doing when the Challenger was destroyed. The Columbia shuttle diaster will be the same, forever etched in memory.

Hopefully no one will forget, the puzzle will be solved, and the space program will move forward. Personally, I would like to see a whole new system designed and built, using  an entirely different power and propulsion system, based on cutting edge science and technology. Reaction systems are reaching their limits. I can hope, though, and now maybe this diaster will be the nudge to move forward in this way.

[DarkHawke]

They use old technology on purpose, firstly everything has to be qualified for space (radiation resistance etc.) and they only use things which are tried and tested. Using the latest tech would be a very risky move. Consequently you'll probably still find things like 68000 CPUs in the Shuttle.

Regrettably, this isn't the case.  If the space program had continued as planned (i.e. with something MUCH closer to the original budget request) after the Apollo program, a far more effective shuttle program would have begun in the mid-'70s and not the early '80s.  The 68000 series was produced well after the shuttle program began.   They actually use something closer to Apple II tech (6502) or the old Z80s.  The only 680x0 computers I know of in use by NASA are the Amigas still being used to handle flight data telemetry (odd how things are related, eh?).

Yes, they do perform extensive testing of the kind you're talking about, but given better budgets, the testing would occur that much quicker and design specs would not have to be scaled back so much.  For instance, did you know that as originally conceived, the shuttle would have had a manned and completely reusable booster that would have glided back to the ground much as the shuttle does?  Not that this particular difference would have prevented this tragedy, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's discovered that had some budget-enforced design compromise not been made, the risks of shuttle re-entry could have been greatly minimized.

[KennyR]

If Israel want freedom, first they have to realise that it comes through celebrating life, not dealing death. That goes for all of us.

[cyka_delik]

I greatly feel for the famillies involved in this tragic incident that has happened in the last few days. I think that this will bring the budget up and new designs for completely ersuable space craft will emerge from the wood work. I only hope something like this will never happen again.

I thank god that i was not old enough to remebr teh challenger shuttle crash (I was only 1 at the time) and this will be forever stuck i my mind.

I wish my sympathies on the families of all in involved. I also wish for peace where there is none in this world. i am upset by this trumer.  :cry:  :boohoo:

[NyQuil]

My thoughts go to the families of the astronauts, and the millions of people starving in the 3rd world, the thousands of Irakis waiting to get killed by a very scary man with too much power on his hands, and all the other people who didn't have their asses strapped to a multi-billion dollar space-shuttle when they died, and so didn't make the evening news.

[AmiNTT]

I would point out that the Columbia was hardly "old" - barely at 1/3 of its designed life cycle (100 flights on airframe).

The orbiter went through two Orbiter Maintenance Down Periods (OMDP) during which the orbiter is completely overhauled.  During these two OMDPs, over 150 modifications were made.  During the last one (1999), a new "glass" cockpit was installed using multi-function displays rather than dials to show information.  

I'd equate it to stripping a car down to the frame and rebuilding it.

One thing that sickens me are the people who use  disasters to push their political agendas... "Ban manned space flight" and the like.  I understand that they must make noise at times like this because its the only time that they will get any real press, but that doesn't excuse it in my mind.

There are legitimate uses for both types of spaceflight, manned and robotic. Pioneer 10 was launched 25 days before I was born, and it holds a special spot for me.

Not everything is easy, or safe.  The rewards of taking the risks can be great, with the possibility of failure always there.  The people of the space program are heros, one and all.

[System]

Thank you all for your response.
It is nice to hear so many different people feeling the same way about something, in such a torn-apart world.


@ Mountain_Myst:

There are very few things that most of the Israelis (and I have no doubt that most Palestinians, too) want more than peace.
In the last few years most of us also realize that the peace agreement should include a Palestinian state.
So I think there's hope, yet - although this is probably the most dificult time I remember (I'm 33).


@ cecilia:

It's not about Logic and Common Sense - it's about Hate.
I can only asure you that many Arabs (Israeli Palestinians)  that I personaly know are among the kindest and nicest people I've ever met, and I'm proud for knowing them.
Unfortunatly, there are the other kind, too.
And THOSE are deadly.
I admit it is hard for me to remember this, sometimes (when a relative of mine was blown to bits in Tel-Aviv, driving a Bus; When a mother and her tow children were murdered in their sleep at point blank; ... ), but there are many decent Arabs who just want to live their lives, and are cought in these events.


@ Billsey:

Amen.


@ KennyR:

I'm sorry you feel that way.
We think we're just trying to survive.
I think you are completely wrong, and I have my arguments, but I think this is not the time or place to get into that.
If you want to hear (or read) what I have to say, you'r welcome:

papiss@netvision.net.il

[Nick]

I didn`t know this until I read the front of a newspaper. I was and still am shocked. I saw Columbia land on STS78 on my birthday (07/07) in 96. I seem to remember I have something in a book which has a list of predictions for shuttle accidents. I`m sure there was something about reentry accidents.

I haven`t the time to do much research into this at the moment. Does anybody know what STS (mission) number this was?

I wonder if they will put a tiny sensor on each tile like a web of nerves all over the craft. All this would be linked to the avionics so the crew weren`t in the dark on reentry. They would know if they were in trouble or not. It would be very complicated, but thats one way of knowing surely.

[Nick]

Did anybody here see Challenger live on TV? I did and it wasn`t nice. Though I was very young so can`t remember it 100%. Thats probably the best way!

[System]

@ Nick:

1. STS 107.

2. I thought of tile-sensors two, but then I realized that it's not practical:
Too many tiles, sending too much information - more systems that can go wrong.
Wiring, that needs rebuilding of a whole chassis,  and ads to the over-all weight.

It may be practical in a new shuttle, though (if they don't use some new insulation technique).

3. I remember the Chalenger. I was 17.