Dr. Greg Perry of GPSoftware on Directory Opus for AmigaOS 4

[bhoggett]

@MarkTime

Hyperion IS under Amiga's contract. In the end this is 'Amiga' OS 4. An Amiga, Inc. product that will not have DOPUS, that was pre-sold.

Not true. Hyperion are producing AOS4 under license. It will remain a Hyperion product until such a time as Amiga Inc buy it back from them. All immediate decisions about what is and what is not included with AOS4 are made exclusively by Hyperion and all the funding for the various contracts is done by Hyperion, who will retain those contracts until Amiga Inc purchase the whole AOS4 stuff from them, assuming that will ever happen.

AmigaOS 4 is a Hyperion product.

[bhoggett]

@Ketzer

Anyway, Im interested for what Hyperion would need to pay license fees _now_?

Probably because they insisted on buying an exclusive porting license to PPC.

It depends on the clauses in the contract. If the contract only stipulates payments based on numbers of units sold, it's fair to expect Hyperion to start paying only after they've started selling. OTOH, if the exclusive license involves a down payment either as full or partial renumeration for the contract, then it makes sense to expect that to be paid within a reasonable time frame after the contract is signed. Certainly I would think we are way past that "reasonable time frame" now. There is no reason why GPSoft should be expected to wait until Hyperion feel like doing some work on DOpus before being paid.

[MarkTime]

AmigaOS 4 is a Hyperion product.

In terms of your definitions you are correct.  But you are being hard on the english language here (pardon me saying that as an american!)

I don't disagree with you about a technical statement that Hyperion is coding OS 4.

But it is Amiga, Inc., and not anyone else, that made the contract with the community by pre-selling OS 4.  Hyperion didn't do that.  That was all Amiga, Inc.

Maybe someone could argue that the I am Amiga Club, party pack coupons, and promises of free OS 4 that come with an AmigaOne, are not in fact pre-sales of OS 4.

But they sure as heck are...I'm not arguing this before a judge...this is a community board...PSSST they have been pre-selling OS 4 for many months now....

Nevermind what, who, where OS 4 is now....I could argue that the source code Hyperion owns the rights to, until Amiga buys it, isn't OS 4 either, until Amiga buys it....but never mind all that.

Amiga, Inc. has been selling something called 'Amiga OS 4'

they can pre-sell it, if it eventually is a product that they sell.  But if that never happens at all, clearly wrong....if they sell something called OS 4, but its not the product everyone understood it to be....thats very dubious indeed.

[The_Editor]

@ Jumpship ..

Dopus = Directory Opus.

Its a liddle bit like Xtree Gold. Only MUCH more superior.

[Wolfe]

To Do or not to Do the OPUS.

The real stinger is: if you sign an agreement, you are supposed to live up to it.  

Providing the parties involved are doing their part as prescribed in the agreement.  Make the community "Amiga" look bad.  Again.

[bhoggett]

@MarkTime

In terms of your definitions you are correct. But you are being hard on the english language here (pardon me saying that as an american!)

Hard? I am being literal and accurate. What else is there?

I don't disagree with you about a technical statement that Hyperion is coding OS 4.

Hyperion owns AmigaOS4.  They needed licenses off Amiga Inc to use the old sources and to use the name, but Hyperion own the final product. There simply is no doubt about that.

But it is Amiga, Inc., and not anyone else, that made the contract with the community by pre-selling OS 4. Hyperion didn't do that. That was all Amiga, Inc.

One has to wonder at the wisdom of the community in giving them the money. Amiga Inc made a contract with the community, sure, but they will have to re-imburse Hyperion and/or the distributors, or maybe even the users directly when the product is on sale. Hyperion, and everyone else will tell you they themselves are not bound by any deal Amiga Inc made.

Sadly, this is irrelevant in terms of investment into actually producing OS4.

Maybe someone could argue that the I am Amiga Club, party pack coupons, and promises of free OS 4 that come with an AmigaOne, are not in fact pre-sales of OS 4.

But they sure as heck are...I'm not arguing this before a judge...this is a community board...PSSST they have been pre-selling OS 4 for many months now....

Nevermind what, who, where OS 4 is now....I could argue that the source code Hyperion owns the rights to, until Amiga buys it, isn't OS 4 either, until Amiga buys it....but never mind all that.

It is AmigaOS4, because Hyperion have a license to use that name for it.

Amiga, Inc. has been selling something called 'Amiga OS 4'

No, they've been selling some coupons.

they can pre-sell it, if it eventually is a product that they sell. But if that never happens at all, clearly wrong....if they sell something called OS 4, but its not the product everyone understood it to be....thats very dubious indeed.

What people think AmigaOS4 should be is not Amiga Inc's responsibility, it's that of the people themselves.

To put it simply: Amiga Inc have been pre-selling a product they expect to be on the market "soon". This doesn't have to mean it is their product, or that the responsibility for funding development lies with them.

Sure, people gave Amiga Inc a bunch of notes on the understanding that they would be getting X, Y and Z. Frankly, more fool them. I'm still amazed at the number of folks who fell for the scam - which is how I regard it until proven otherwise.

Bottom line is this: Amiga Inc have nothing to do with the DOpus issue. They never promised Hyperion they would fund the purchase, and I'm sure Hyperion will confirm that they never expected Amiga Inc to fund it either. This is purely and issue between Hyperion and GPSoft, and it should have been resolved months ago.

There are plenty of reasons to criticise Amiga Inc, and I'll be the first to point the accusing finger at them on any number of issues, but let's not make things up that simply aren't true.

[Jose]

I don't know what's happen, but give it a chance both parties, OS4 is way too important project to let go like that!

[System]

> OS4 does not need Directory Opus to look nice.

> From what I've seen from the screenshots, OS4 looks much better than I ever though it would.

I agree with this 100%.  BUT DOpus is not to make WB LOOK good.  It is make it more functional.  If you do not use the extra functionality of DOpus, fine.  But I hardly think anyone can deny that it adds considerable power to the old WB.  If I have to go into a list of all its features, then you don't know much about the program.

[System]

I must apologize to all involved.

I love this program.  It enhances MY computing experience and makes MY computer work easier.

I was cleaning up my OLD emails and came across this thread that said something about DOpus & AmigaOS4 in the works. I further noticed that there was a lack of follow-up information anywhere to be found.  I was simply curious if this was dropped, still in the works, etc.  I revived the topic on the DOpus5 mailing list.  Dr Perry was simply responding honestly to MY inquiry.  He did not bring up the subject to bad mouth Hyperion or leverage them.  He was merely voicing his frustrations to someone who asked the question.  Perhaps he should have just said, "No comment", but how would that have gotten misconstrued?

It is amazing to me how my simple inquiry has turned into such vicious personal attacks on everyone involved.  It is simply juvenile.

If you like it great.  If you don't like it, fine too.  But I don't understand anyone that still uses the Amiga turning their noses up at any decent programs for our platform.  That seems like suicide to me.  I would rather have many choices to fit my tastes than only the 4 most popular programs as my only choices.

JFTR, if I got stiffed on a business deal and someone asked me how it was going, I would have most likely responded the same.  If contracts are being honored, there would be nothing ill to say about it, would there?

For me, I will stop asking pointless questions on this subject.. and just wait to see how it turns out.

[DaveP]

@Bill

Note I said Ben Fleecy and Bill.


"I still think making a point of attacking GPSoft over this is an overreaction. AFAIK, this issue is the only one GPSoft have gone public over, whereas I'm pretty sure we can dredge up at least half-a-dozen occasions when Ben Hermans has done the very same thing."

This is a financial dispute, not allegations of sleaze
( which I agree are bad enough ) and the May post
was put out there to cause a furore AFTER only emails had been resorted to. The route to take is known to all companies.

We will have to disagree about my reaction to GPSoft being an "over-reaction".

Bernie, correct me if I am wrong went through a hell of a lot more than just a few emails that were not responded to before using the public to try and convict H+P and HF on his behalf.

If all GPSoft do is not get an answer to a few emails before they go public I would put it to you that THEY are the ones that over-reacted and acted precipitously and this Mailing List comment no matter how provoked is secondary.

I am not an apologist for anyone, and never will be and was quite offended that you thought I was apologising for Hyperion.

In the real world, you just do not do business this
way and you CERTAINLY do not handle disputes this way.

Saying that because Ben Hermans nailed Thendic and BPlan to the wall over MorphOS justifies a greater lapse in standards of someone else is just apologism for GPSoft.

[DaveP]

@AvatharV

"JFTR, if I got stiffed on a business deal and someone asked me how it was going, I would have most likely responded the same. If contracts are being honored, there would be nothing ill to say about it, would there?"

JFTR if you got shafted on a contract then you have to open a dispute. The dispute either gets resolved before legal action or it goes to court. If it goes to court and you win then you can beat your chest and say you were wronged. Until that point it is a dispute.

You are accepting the word of GPSoft on this only knowing what GPSoft has said on the subject and using the "no smoke without fire" argument.

In the real world real people follow due process to resolve disputes. In this Amiga fantasy world run by idiotic schoolboys who have never grown up it seems to be "get my side of the story out first to the public ... lets have a trial by media".

It is NOT an action to be respected no matter who does it, Buck, Hermans or Perry.

If Greg had said "No comment" then he would have had at least part of my respect left - most of which went when that clearly inflammatory newsgroup post was put up there.

There is something political here, perhaps it is that GPSofts claim is not that strong because of contractual issues or perhaps they are running out of money. Who knows, it is not our place to judge the outcome of the dispute but we can certainly condemn the methods that one of the party has resorted to in order to "resolve" it.

For you to disregard what has been said on this subject as "personal attacks" suggests that this is not the outcome to the debate that you wanted either which makes me question your motives.

I don't side with GPSoft or Hyperion over the matter of the dispute, but I do criticise heavily Mr Perry for resorting to trial by media rather than resolving it through standard business and legal methods.

The fact that he did not either suggests he is unprofessional OR that he does not have a strong enough position to win through on a due process which also suggests a lack of professionalism on dealing with contracts.

Bloody amateurs, the lot of em ( Amiga based business people ).

Bloody witch hunters, the lot of em ( Amiga community members ).

GP @ Hyperion: Its a witch!!!!!!!!
Community: Burn her! Burn her!

[DaveP]

@Marktime

I don't know why you bother reading the comments either because you clearly don't read them properly.

"what is soooo hard about that? The e-mail states very clearly, there is no misunderstanding, they didn't pay the money."

Ah, Im glad you are not a judge. If one side sayes "he stole from me" that is enough for you is it? No need for corroberating evidence?

You are a witch burner, no more no less.

All you know at the moment is that GPSoft CLAIMS that no money has been paid. You don't know if firstly that it has not, secondly that the contract really obliged the other party to pay it. In fact because you haven't seen any contract, clauses or further submissions from either party you are not qualified to judge jackshit.

This was what pissed me off over Amiga Inc vs MorphOS and what pisses me off with GPSoft. Using what is clearly a bunch of easily led half civilized savages to be judge and jury with less than 10% of the story.

GET INTO COURT!!!!!!!

 8-)  :-o

[System]

They are in breach of the contract for non-payment of contract fees so
DOpus development in OS4 cannot proceed. We are quite a bit peeved that
they used the good name of DOpus and GPSoftware to promote their own
activities and then refused to honour the contract we signed in good
faith.

My question is...
What kind of contract would this be?
I didn't see any signs of Opus in the screenshots.
OS4 isn't even being sold yet.



How can there be a break in contract?
I wouldn't think that Greg Perry would make false claims, but then again....

Who knows these days.

I never will forget when he left the Amiga to go PC though.
He didn't even fix the installer script in Megellan 2.

That was kinda like a breech in contract too.

[bhoggett]

@DaveP

Bernie, correct me if I am wrong went through a hell of a lot more than just a few emails that were not responded to before using the public to try and convict H+P and HF on his behalf.

Oh, the mails were responded to eventually, it's just that the the responses were unsatisfactory. However it's true that Bernie only went public after terminating his contract with H&P.

Having said that, the whole process took a helluva lot less time than the six months we're looking at in this case.

I think we will have to agree to disagree about the ethical values of the people involved here. IMHO, the only thing GPSoft have done wrong is to not permanently terminate Hyperion's contract before making the public statement. Of course, had they done so a positive resolution would have become impossible, and many people would have still blamed GPSoft for being greedy rather than accept any criticism of Hyperion.

[jumpship]

From what I see all that really needed to be said is:

GPSoft is currently unable to continue development of DOpus due to misscomunication between Hyperion and ourselves. Once this has been cleared up we can contiune.

It gets the point accross without going into the specifics that, lets face it, we don't really need to know. At the end of the day,  without a copy of the contract NONE of us can comment on wether or not this is true Or if Greg is in the right. But either way he could have gone about it in other ways rather then on a public messege board

[Quixote]

;-) I use DOpus Magellan II on my A4000, and would have wanted to see some of its functionality included in AmigaOS4 as standard, rather than as an add-on replacement available later.
 
:-( It will be a shame if this cannot be resolved to everyone's satisfaction....