Dr. Greg Perry of GPSoftware on Directory Opus for AmigaOS 4

[Warrent]

"Going straight from email to public announcements on the web is strange practise. It is almost
as if he wants to cause maximum embarrassment and reduce
the potential to sort this out amicably to zero in BOTH cases
this and the LAST(May). Thats my problem with him, none
of the rest of it ( if he has a valid complaint or not ) is
any of our business.

His business methods stink. There is something political
about this."


Hummm, I wasn't even thinking about why this has gone public?  I do not know the answer, but as stated this is not a normal business method.  In that regard it is sad to see this happen.  I would hope that the two parties will talk to "each" other and maybe work out a good deal for both.  Again I do not see the big deal of having Dopus shipped with OS4 as to installing it later.  If I want to use Dopus on OS4 I will be able to do so.  Maybe that is one of things that is brothering Perry, knowing that Dopus may not be part of OS4?

[zacman]

>Again I do not see the big deal of having Dopus
>shipped with OS4 as to installing it later

What was said when the "deal" was announced,
was that they had to licence DOpus to make sure
that it actually runs on OS4 and its 68k emulation.

[Kronos]

@DaveP

Do you know what might have happened in between May and now ?

Maybe he was in the same position to Hyperion as Bernie claimed
to have been with H&P ?

Maybe he tried all "civil" ways to make them pay what he has been
promised ? Maybe maybe .....

But there is one thing that we can put as allmost certain fact:

While Ben promised to solve the situation AFAP in May, he still
hasn't paid till today.

[bhoggett]

@DaveP

His business methods stink. There is something political about this.

Maybe. Then again, maybe Hyperion are really stalling on paying for DOpus until they are ready to actually do the port.

I will agree that going public with this sort of stuff isn't normal business practice, but then again this is the Amiga market, a place where normal business practice is to sweep all the dirt under the carpet and swear blind that it isn't there.  A little openness isn't going to hurt anyone who doesn't deserve to get hurt.

I find your attack on Perry perplexing, and can only explain it by a desire to protect Hyperion's image at all costs.

Let's look at the facts for one minute:

Back on the 21st of May, Jonathan Potter asked the "Hyperion?" question (not Greg, you will notice). The same day James Sellman of Hyperion replied basically admitting that it was Hyperion's fault, and that

"rest assured that we'll work this out with GPSoft."

It is now the middle of December and it seems things weren't "worked out" after all. Call me cynical, but I'd be ready to place a large bet that Hyperion want to postpone paying until they have time to do the port and  put it on the market.

You say the motivation must be political? Well, the big political coup would be to cancel the contract and sell it to Hyperion's rivals (who would, I'm sure, love that kind of publicity). AFAICT, that's not what Perry has said.

Look at it this way: Hyperion have a habit of preferring exclusive contracts. If they signed an excusive contract to port and sell PPC versions of DOpus, GPSoft can't accept any offers from anyone else to do the same. That's fine if everything goes smoothly, but it turns a bit sour if the contract isn't honoured and no money is forthcoming, specially if anyone else might be interested in porting to PPC...

There is no doubt that GPSoft should have taken all private measures to resolve the issue before going public, but we don't know that they haven't already done so, and maybe going public is the last chance saloon before terminating the contract altogether.

Thankfully, there is no product being sold on the market to make things worse. Otherwise, this story has all the alarming hallmarks of the Amiga Inc vs H&P saga.

 :-(

[System]

Why does it seem like every person that used to be part of the Amiga community are still trying to screw over whats left, I dunno now they've left do they feel sore and so feel the need to go do some stirring to make themselves feel better?

If Mr Perry feels the need to be so unprofessional and selfish then forget DOPUS.

I am just fed up of all the con-men and bad businesses that are trying to scavenge the last bit from the Amiga carcass, its like they've suddenly realised the Amiga market wasn't viable for the last 8 years and are now trying to get something back.

The last Amigans that are left are being conned, and tricked into playing the powergames of a few relatively shallow individuals who think they have nothing to stop them.

[DaveP]

@Bill

GP is responsible for the company and also company relationships
if JP did this without his permission and knowledge I would
be very surprised but even more saddenned by the complete
lack of competance shown in the Amiga market.

>I find your attack on Perry perplexing, and can only explain it by a desire to protect Hyperion's image at all costs.

No. I said it is none of my business if he has a real problem
with Hyperion or not. I personally do not care about
protecting Hyperions image but I am fed up with disputes
like this being thrown straight into the public domain instead
of following the standard methods.

It is like going straight
to maximum DEFCON. I also said he might have a legitimate complaint, I don't know and
Im not sure I care.

I abhor his method of handling the dispute to go from email
to the web is ludicrous. That smacks of the political. You are chosing
to interpret the word "political" as being playing the MOS vs
AOS game which I see no evidence for and I am surprised
that you think I was indicating he was point scoring for his
competitors.

But now I am repeating myself.

Exclusive contracts or not is irrelevant to MY issue with Greg's
business methods which I have explained above.

In fact I had the same issue with Bill, Ben and Fleecy over publically
beating their chests about the copyright issue - I said at the
time it was no way to conduct it "get into court" I said, issue
a writ I said.

"It is now the middle of December and it seems things weren't "worked out" after all. Call me cynical, but I'd be ready to place a large bet that Hyperion want to postpone paying until they have time to do the port and put it on the market."

Yep, that may be so.

"There is no doubt that GPSoft should have taken all private measures to resolve the issue before going public, but we don't know that they haven't already done so, and maybe going public is the last chance saloon before terminating the contract altogether."

The last chance saloon is solicitor involvement, as I said
before. I am sure that if GP had gone through this they
would have said as much: "Hyperion are even ignoring our
solicitors letters".

What I said stands Bill, their business ethics stink. Sure, Hyperions
might stink too.

[DaveP]

@Kronos

There are two things we know for a certain fact:

1. This has moved to a public slanging match.

2. The issue has not been resolved to the satisfaction of all parties.

Im not inclined to believe one over the other but I do know this,
things are not made better by public humiliation, they are made
worse. If you really want to resolve something you do not
back your "quarry" into a corner like this. You follow legal means,
once you start to get legal the "quarry" takes you seriously
and puts Paul ahead of Peter because Paul has called a lawyer
and Peter is just sending emails without return-receipt on.

Sure, I have my private opinion of the Bernie vs H+P issue
and frankly the vitriolic contribution of Harald have meant that I am more
likely to take Bernies side over the dispute. However that
is over a dispute and not the "going public" which I have
my own views on.

[DaveP]

Note also that GP did not want this thing cross posted
or reposted without his permission.

I still stand by my comments about using the public
as judge and jury being unprofessional and all too damn
frequently resorted to.

[DaveP]

[ duplicate ]

[bhoggett]

@DaveP

I still stand by my comments about using the public as judge and jury being unprofessional and all too damn frequently resorted to.

Like I said, under normal circumstances I'd agree with you, but the Amiga market is such that settling things in court is very rarely a viable option, and that is a fact many companies play on when deciding to break their contractual agreements.

I still think making a point of attacking GPSoft over this is an overreaction. AFAIK, this issue is the only one GPSoft have gone public over, whereas I'm pretty sure we can dredge up at least half-a-dozen occasions when Ben Hermans has done the very same thing.

Like I said before, I think there should be more public knowledge about the behaviour of companies in the Amiga market, not less. What would have happened had Bernie not gone public about his dispute with H&P? I'll tell you:

Amiga Inc would till be whistling for their money. H&P would still be selling the package - no doubt in larger quantities than they are doing now, as distributors would be none-the-wiser. Bernie would have still left the scene, and been blamed for walking out because of greed, disinterest etc. leaving poor H&P and Harald Frank to pick up the pieces.

That, in short, is what "keeping it quiet" tends to achieve, and why so many corrupt companies and individuals have come to dominate the market.

[SlimJim]

> This has moved to a public slanging match.
 
Except for the fact that there is only one side slinging mud
so far.
 Hyperion is yet to comment (officially) on this (Ben's been
non-existent on ANN so far).
 
 I'd say it's a good sign Ben hasn't made any harsh reply
 yet- perhaps they are still trying to work something out
behind the scenes, where things like this should be
discussed?

[seer]

Speculation;

Hyperion is hard at work with OS4, don't have time to port DOpus, and as such haven't paid anything.. I don't know what license they hold, but it seems strange you have to pay anything when you're not even porting it, let alone selling it... ?

[System]

More public acusations  :griping: ... :-(

Anyway, Im interested for what Hyperion would need to pay license fees _now_? Without actually using / selling DOpus this seems a bit strange to me.  :-?

[MarkTime]

What is so hard to understand about they didn't get paid any money.

what is soooo hard about that?  The e-mail states very clearly, there is no misunderstanding, they didn't pay the money.

so what will the first 1,000 comments be from the true believers: 'I'm sure its just a misunderstanding.'

AIYEEEEE...get a grip people.  

It's bad enough Amiga doesn't have any money, they also go around signing contracts even though they know they don't have any money.  They borrow money from the community to raise an additional 50K a-la OS4/AmigaOne pre-sales, where'd that money go?

This is HIGHLY UNETHICAL CONDUCT.  OK!!!  This former Amiga, Inc. fan is telling you.   They borrowed 50 GRAND from the community pre-selling OS4.
The AmigaDE iniative maybe was just a disappointing move on the part of Amiga at one time, but now it is so much more than that.  They borrowed 50 GRAND on PRE-SALES of OS4/AmigaOne, and they didn't use the money to complete OS4.

Borrowing money for the DE project is only OK, if you are honest about it.  If you LIE and pre-sell a product with such and such features and behind the scenes you aren't working on it at all, and use the money you get from pre-sales to do other things....well that is just BS!

OK, I don't know why I bother with the comments, either you get it or you don't.
I was an AMIGA fan, I wanted Amiga, Inc. to do well.

They are a huge disappointment, I hope they go out and get real jobs at Burger King soon.

[MarkTime]

btw, I do realize I cut out Hyperion and went straight for Amiga, Inc.

This is, in fact, the correct thing to do..  Hyperion IS under Amiga's contract.   In the end this is 'Amiga' OS 4.  An Amiga, Inc. product that will not have DOPUS, that was pre-sold.

If you don't understand why this is important....remember the internal business of hyperion and GPS has nothing to do with the Amiga community.

The issue for the Amiga community is the featureset of OS 4, and whether Amiga is going to deliver it (by whatever convoluted mechanism they choose to deliver it)...especially in light of the fact that many people have already purchased OS4.  Via the party-pack, via the club membership, and via purchasing an actual AmigaONE board.

Now the featureset diminishes, and Amiga, Inc. is ultimately responsible for their product.  

My guess, at least 2,000 copies of OS4 have already been sold via the above named mechanisms....maybe more.  So Hyperion should have some cash to pay their contracts.

LETS TAKE A WILD GUESS, AMIGA INC HASN'T PONIED UP ANY MONEY.

OK, and this reminds me...who has received their club membership rebates?  

 :-)

[bhoggett]

@MarkTime

Hyperion IS under Amiga's contract. In the end this is 'Amiga' OS 4. An Amiga, Inc. product that will not have DOPUS, that was pre-sold.

Not true. Hyperion are producing AOS4 under license. It will remain a Hyperion product until such a time as Amiga Inc buy it back from them. All immediate decisions about what is and what is not included with AOS4 are made exclusively by Hyperion and all the funding for the various contracts is done by Hyperion, who will retain those contracts until Amiga Inc purchase the whole AOS4 stuff from them, assuming that will ever happen.

AmigaOS 4 is a Hyperion product.