MOS: back to the future

[Argo]

Doesn't the A1 have all of those? I know Allen Redhouse mentioned that the board has a header for either IR or Firewire. I just can't remember which..

[Kronos]

@aego
IR ? Not on the board, but maybe on the vapor AMR.

FireWire ? Not in the southbridge, and not important (according
to Ben, video-freaks may beg to differ).

[Alkemyst]

@Kronos
 
"IR ? Not on the board, but maybe on the vapor AMR."
 
there waas no need to add the vapor part to that comment as your asking for it to be thrown back in your face.
 
as the cpu module for the Bplan mobo is just as much vapor.

[YttriumOx]

The thing to keep in mind about the AMR is that anything "on the AMR" is actually on the board.
The AMR itself is just the physical ports - all the logic is provided onboard.
As far as Firewire goes - I've needed it once... ever... in my entire life.  If I ever want Firewire with my AmigaOne I'll get a PCI Firewire card from my local dealership.  I'd hate to pay extra for my board to have something so non-essential on it.
The onboard stuff on the AmigaOne is all USEFUL (admittedly, you may not use the modem if like me, you have cable, but because of chip choice, the modem is pretty much a freebie anyway)

Regards,
Ben de Waal
AKA YttriumOx

[Kronos]

@YttriumOx
Onboard or not, that is not the question since Eyetech claim to have
the boards consumer-ready in a few weeks, the board has been unchanged
for months (the HW), but still they don't seem to have one single AMR.


FireWire:
How long do we have PCI-boards for the Amiga ? And how long are USB-PCI-
cards available ? And why did it take a (2) costum Zorro-cards before
someone actually did write an USB-stack ?

Sofar noone on the OS4-side has been talking about writting one, and
I don't see how an 3rd-party could make some money on it, because as
long as there is no driver, there won't be any modern video-SW for it,
and as long as there is no SW, there won't be the need for an driver ....

Paying extra ?
The suggested retail price for the Pegasos is the same as for the
A1-SE, and 100 Euro/$ less than the XE. And that doesn't even include an
OS for the A1s. So yes I also hate paying extra for things I don't need,
and "the name" is definitly one of those.

[Alkemyst]

"FireWire:
How long do we have PCI-boards for the Amiga ? And how long are USB-PCI-
cards available ? And why did it take a (2) costum Zorro-cards before
someone actually did write an USB-stack ?"
 
i really dont know what your point is
 
& anyway there was need for other pci drivers first like gfxcards,soundcards,networkcards,tv card,warp3d drivers,ect.

"Paying extra ?
The suggested retail price for the Pegasos is the same as for the
A1-SE, and 100 Euro/$ less than the XE. And that doesn't even include an
OS for the A1s. So yes I also hate paying extra for things I don't need,
and "the name" is definitly one of those.
 
what crap if the price of the pegasos with firewire is 500 euros but if they had not put the firewire onboard the that board could of been sold for less lets say 460 euros.
 
but you knew that & you just had to twist the comment by turnning it into the price of the Aone with the price of the pegasos when that was not the point of the comment at all, it was just no matter what the price is leaving the firewire off would bring the price down for the pegasos, so the price of the aone has noting to with the price of the of the pegasos with out firewire

[Kronos]

@Alkemyst

The point is that FW for the A1 will face the same problems as
USB for the Amiga had. Noone will feel the need to write drivers
aslong as noone has FW, and noone writes SW to use it. Noone will
write SW that relies on FW aslong as their is none ...

By making FW standard bPlan allowed development for a fixed API
and stuff like MotionStudio becomes possible.


FW is part of the southbridge used on the Pegasos, and I would
guess that the connector and other needed extra parts are well
under $10. Sounds resonable for something such powerfull (and
quite expensive if bought on PCI).

Why did I bring the A1 into it ?
Both companies are forced to make one product that offers what
they think their customers want. BPlan decided that this bundle
should include FW, while Eyetech decided that theirs should be
labeled "Amiga". So I could also ask what would an TeronCX-MK2
with OS4-licence, but without "AmigaOne-the_name-licence" cost ?

[Alkemyst]

@Kronos.
 
i disagree.
 
the amiga never had gfx cards as standard or CDromdives,zipdrives,DVDdrives,gfxcards,soundcards., when  they first hit the market.
 
just because there is no FW as standard it does not meen it cant be added & most ppl know that it can be & thus could make SW that uses FW as an option.
 
if the demand for such SW is there then the driver would most likey come with that SW for a select range of cards.
 
the amiga had no midi as standard but the demand for midi was high thus  SW was still made with midi in mind like OSS & Bars&Pipes Pro & many others.
 
but the amiga lost out to the atari on that front & no wonder was ppl where telling CBM give us MIDI as standard when they where working on the AGA chipset.
 
so it can work both ways if a feature is included & has a high demand then all good & well & your onto a winner but if its not then its mostly wasted.
 
sorry but i dont see the high demand for FW from ppl wanting the Aone or XE.
 
& your forgetting the amiga way of doing things.
 
if it does not come as standard & there is a worth while demand from amiga ppl for it then it will be made as an addon.
 
just look at what my A1200 has on it now.
 
& most of what on my amiga was never ment to be in the first place but the demand made it so.
 
but now its much easyer than before no more HW hacks. just a driver & thats all as ppl can just go out & bye the card they need.
 
USB took so long as there was little bemand for a long time.

& at first its better to provide the most commonly wanted ports as a priority & then have the least used as addon cards & PCI is used more.
 
you make it sound like most amiga ppl want to do realtime Video work as a priority & then yes FW built in would be better, but if the need was clearly there then some one would jump at the chance to provide a FW card driver & realtime video SW.

[Kronos]

@Alkemyst

See it the other way:

BPlan had been cooperating with epic and Titan even before they
had finished the mATX-design (remember the dual-ZIF-version), and
at one point Titan may have said "we think there is a market for a real-
time video editor, and we want to write one". What was bPlan's
reaction ? Something like " cost next to nothing as it is allready in
the southbridge".  Sure it would/could have happen as an PCI-addon,
but that would have taken more time, and MotionStudio would have
been more expensive for the costumer since they would have needed a FW-
card for it. Everyone who buys a board and than thinks about video, will
only need to buy the SW to get thinks going.

Porting MotionStudio to OS4 id impossible as as there is no working
FW-solution, and I don't see anybody starting on it.

For your examples:
CD-ROM were introduced by C= (CDTV)
GFX-cards were custom (expensive) Zorro-cards that needed SW. This SW
could later easily be reused for PCI-cards.

A ZIP-drive is just standard Unit handled by the device of a custom
SCSI (or IDE) controller. No extra SW needed.

Soundcards did start the same way as GFX-card, but in this case
someone later wrote a free and general SW (AHI) for them, but still
there would never be any support for if some companies didn't
sell the HW.

The only realistic way of adding FW to OS4 (other than in the OS
itself) is dongeling the card in the same way as the Spider is, and thats
something that simply sucks !

[Elektro]

It's official: There will never be a real time video editor for a1 as it has no FW on board. Please excuse me while I go hang myself...

[Kronos]

@Elektro

 :lol:  :lol:

Not "never" but later, just like the MIDI/Atari problem  and that was
the reason why the Amiga never played an important role for proffessinal
musicians. Those who are still using a Amiga or Draco for proffessinal
video (mostly smal companies doing wedding-movies or so) want
to replace their aging systems with something that allows them to use
(parts of) their existing SW, and I don't think they will care about
the name-badge. That market will allready be lost when someone finally
decides to write such a SW for OS4.

[Elektro]

By this logic morsos should conquer the video editing market like a storm...

[Alkemyst]

@Kronos
"See it the other way:"
 
i was not talking about how i see it i just said what has happened in the way thing have worked in the past when it comes to amiga.
 
& you try to make out that it could never work that way, but it did.

"BPlan had been cooperating with epic and Titan even before they
had finished the mATX-design (remember the dual-ZIF-version), and
at one point Titan may have said "we think there is a market for a real-
time video editor, and we want to write one". What was bPlan's
reaction ? Something like " cost next to nothing as it is allready in
the southbridge". Sure it would/could have happen as an PCI-addon,
but that would have taken more time, and MotionStudio would have
been more expensive for the costumer since they would have needed a FW-
card for it. Everyone who buys a board and than thinks about video, will
only need to buy the SW to get thinks going."
 
i agree with that, but it does not mean if it aint done that way from the start that it could not be done later.

& just cos Bplan think there is such importance for video work it does not mean that everyone else should
 
& anyway if Video work is a big issue then im sure them ppl would be doing on the MaC already.

& also you asume that that ppl still doing video work on there old amigas dont care about the amiga lable, say your wrong as if they really wanted to upgrade there settup to do better video work then

they could of gotten them self a by now Mac thats if all that matters was the features & not the lable then why havent they got then selfs a mac & made life easyer.
 
MOS is not amigaOS BPlan mobo is not amiga either. it just a another ppc computer with FW.
 
cos as soon as the SW is made MOS native it nolonger amigaOS SW, ITS MOS SW.
 
soory but you just seem to be some that thinks what he sees as good for him would be good for every one else
 
& i fedup with the same crap when i see MOS ppl saying get a pegasos to ppl wanting an Aone cos the pegasos got a FW port.
 
ppl know by now that the Aone has no FW aas standard so there is no need to keep ramming it down our necks.
 
if some ppl who would like FW & like to do video work but are not willing to give up the amiga name & OS to do so then a solution will be made im sure.
 
if not then they get a pegasos end of story.
 
the amiga was not made with the video toaster in mind but demand groow for it then it was made.
 
so the wait & see approche does can work as well.

 putting features in first & hopeing can back fire.
 
atari did not put midi in cos atari users asked for it so they got lucky & it took off.
 
ppl used Macs mostly for midi work before.
 
its alway more risky putting features in & hopeing ppl will want it than
 
than putting in features that ppl aksed for.
 
come to think of it why aint the Bplan & Aone come with Midi bulit in. im into music so screw the FW & replace it with a midi port.

[Seehund]

Alkemyst wrote:

[...] BPlan mobo is not amiga either. it just a another ppc computer with FW.

What?

Newsflash: In case you really hadn't noticed, there won't be any more Amigas. Fortunately there are only various "just another PPC computer" from third parties, like the Terons/"AmigaOnes", Pegasoses, PowerMacs or whatever. Unfortunately, a trademark license will control whether AmigaOS will be allowed to run on it.

A "Pegasos vs. Teron" flamewar is both meaningless and ridiculous. It's just some pieces of hardware. We should be allowed to buy what we prefer and install our OS of choice on.

[Alkemyst]

Seehund you still stuck on that grove.

what make the Aone an amiga is that it can run amigaOs4 Native & its has the Rom to do so like every
other amiga.

[Argo]

That would require all sides certifying each others boards.