Quake2 AmigaOS-port finally released

[Tomas]

i have nothing against ppl expressing their views, after all this is a discussion board..... But act like you know all, we dont know a ####, just because he/she has a different view than you, that pisses me off.

If you like windoze, then sick with it, no need to call us who use amiga and believe in it dumb...

[Roj]

I will, henceforth, stop openly sharing my opinions with the members of this site

If you're right and everyone else is wrong, you should remain confident enough to continue with the presentation of your opinion. People are listening. They may not agree but they aren't ignoring you.

...it's painfully obvious to me that most of you are content with the dead-ended future shoved down your throats by a certain consortium who believes that they own, operate, and run Amiga Incorporated in spite of Bill McEwen's presence.

Funny, I've felt this way about the Wintel/Gates "community" for the longest time. Amiga certainly is being "shoved down my throat" with much less vigor than Windows is, thankyouverymuch.

One ring to rule them all.
One ring to find them, one ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

Sorry, for some reason that phrase seemed appropriate. =^)

I guess what you're trying to say is that Windows is moving in a direction that holds more promise for you than the path chosen for the Amiga. That's all well and good, but the work being done by Hyperion deserves more respect than you're granting. It is another option where none existed before. It may not be exactly what you wanted, but that's no reason to slight an obviously competent group of dedicated developers. They have an awful lot to show for their efforts. To date I am unable to purchase software by Wayne for my computer system.

I consider it even more painful and disheartening that this community is no longer interested in listening to reason without shouting down the messenger of said reason.

Doesn't look different than any other discussion, except for the fact that many disagree with you, and you're having trouble dealing without threatening to take your ball and go home.

it's a damned clear point that "you" aren't interested in hearing anything that I (or any realists) have to say.

I'm interested in your point of view, but since when does interest demand agreement? There are some points raised above which you've not heard as well.

Me? I'm just going to be standing over in the corner with that same look of interest at the goings-on around me.

Sounds like you have a pretty big bag of stones to throw from over in that corner, Wayne. Honestly, the shots you've taken at 060 Amigas could also be aimed at my PC. It's not quite up to the task of running some of the newer PC games either, and it's less than a year old. Don't give me this "It's antiquated because it can't play Quake II" bull. It plays it a helluva lot better than a PC of equal age ever could.

[Kay]

@wayne:

>So now you WANT me to delete your posts?

I said I wouldn't mind that post being removed, if you removed the reason for it. It is quite different from the first deletion. In the first deletion, you removed my replies along with your posts, but then you restated most of the points I had replied to. That clearly destroys the balance of argumentation. Then you restated "my opinions", or rather a dumbed down version of them which didn't really match the original opinions at all. Do you see the difference? Ok, I'll try explaining it abstractly. First case:
1.You said A.
2.I said B.
3.You deleted A and B.
4.You repeated A.
5.I pointed out the inbalance.
6.You claimed that I said C.

The deletion I suggested:
1.You said D (Corresponding to point 6 above).
2.I said E. (Saying that D is false, suggesting deletion of D and E)

I don't mind deletions where it is meaningful and doesn't destroy the balance of argumentation.

Kay

[System]

I guess what you're trying to say is that Windows is moving in a direction that holds more promise for you than the path chosen for the Amiga.

Oh goodness no.  While I give credit where credit is due (Windows XP has been - for me - a very usable and stable OS), I am by no means a fan of Microsoft nor their monopoly.  I guess everyone here is so used to instantly equating the use of the word Windows to "he doesn't support the Amiga" that yours is a natural presumption, but in this case it isn't.

My disdain for the current situation is simple.  In January 2000, Bill McEwen stood on a stage in Saint Louis and gave us a dream.  That dream was that we would ("soon") be able to run the same program on every capable machine out there.  This, to me, is the epitomy of where Amiga SHOULD be heading.  

Then, about a year later (the exact show escapes me at the moment, but I believe it was the last Saint Louis show) they instantly turn on a dime and tell us that in order to run "the future", we have to step backwards and spend -- effectively -- a LOT of money to buy a PPC machine to run AmigaOS on.  

This is not what I (or a silent majority) wanted.  We already have multiple machines, of multiple makes and don't NEED another machine.  What we want is what he promised.  What we want is to be able to buy a "word processor", or a "browser", or a "game" and be able to run it on every device we already own (even if we have to change a few cards around to do it).  We want to be able to have LAN parties where we can "bring what we have" whether that be a Mac, Linux box, or Windows machine, or EVEN A CLASSIC AMIGA!

This was, and is possible with AmigaDE.  The problem is, Amiga Inc is so mired down in the bullshit that has become AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 (and Amithlon, and MOS, and...........) that they have apparently not had time to focus on what they should, and that is to bring us a real, platform-agnostic way to do things.  The trick is not to compete with Windows/Mac/whatever.  The trick here is to embrace them all.

I understand that -- due to the misleadings of TAO --AmigaDE as an actual Operating System (as originally promised) isn't really possible right now, but it never will be as long as Amiga Inc is spending 110% of it's time and money fighting stupid fights between people (calling themselves companies) who have the agenda of destroying any hope Amiga's got.

Don't feed me bull about "Hardware independence is coming in 5.0".  Hell, 4.0/A1 is now YEARS overdue, roughly twice as much overdue as it took to develop the original Lorraine project.  All of this for essentially what amounts to no more than an update to AmigaOS and a new motherboard (made by MAI).  In what century will they even begin thinking about this mythical 5.0?

[System]

@kay

better?

[System]

Hello Wayne!
You wrote:
"This was, and is possible with AmigaDE. The problem is, Amiga Inc is so mired down in the bullshit that has become AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 (and Amithlon, and MOS, and...........) that they have apparently not had time to focus on what they should, and that is to bring us a real, platform-agnostic way to do things."

As I see it Amiga Inc. don't have so much to do with OS4/AOne and are focusing on AmigaDE/AA. So I don't know what you are talking about... Amiga Inc. has not been involved in the development of either AOS4 or AmigaOne... They are working on new deals (getting AmigaDE/AA on new items) raising funds and so on and not letting the ball go out of focus.

/Menthos

[Kay]

> better?

Yes.

Kay

[bhoggett]

I'm not going to get into a long discourse here, so I just want to say that I'm completely with Wayne here. Unfortunately, sheep are sheep and no amount of debate will stop them being sheep, or bleating loudly for no reason.

{Mulder mode}
Have you noticed how two people in this thread have exactly the same views and use the same approach to making their point? If that isn't enough, they use avatars from the same source.

The truth is out there...  :-P
{/Mulder mode}

[Kay]

> {Mulder mode}
> Have you noticed how two people in this thread have exactly the same views and use the same approach to making their point? If that isn't enough, they
> use avatars from the same source.
>
> The truth is out there... :-P
> {/Mulder mode}

You mean we both make sense on most subjects?  (except religion, where only I make sense) :-)

I admit I stole the avatar idea from KennyR, but I feel that I have the right to, since I'm possibly the biggest AC fan on earth...;-)

Kay

[Alkemyst]

forget this sheep calling crap we who are left use amigas cos we want to & most amiga

users are more computer savy than the avg windows family as amigaos does not try to hold your hand at every turn.
 
i use amiga not because i lilke to follow amiga.inc its because i like amigaOS.

& dont like windows atm to get the best out of PC HW you will need to use windows to run most of the apps.
 
& window will just not do for me at all & amithlon is no good to me cos i use too many apps wich need the chipset & aga support.
 
if all comes to the worst ill buy myself a powerMac.
 
anyway you make it sound like all windows users are savy & all of them use it cos they know enough about Oses& they had judged window over the years to be the best ever OS.
 
all i can say is that there are more sheep in the windows world then on the amiga.
 
& if you go by your comment you who run winmdows do so cos you like microsoft? or do you run windows cos you like windows & the apps.
 
we run amigaos cos we like amigaos not cos we like amiga.inc

[System]

As I see it Amiga Inc. don't have so much to do with OS4/AOne and are focusing on AmigaDE/AA. So I don't know what you are talking about... Amiga Inc. has not been involved in the development of either AOS4 or AmigaOne... They are working on new deals (getting AmigaDE/AA on new items) raising funds and so on and not letting the ball go out of focus.

Sorry, to paraphrase (.mpg not available at the moment) Bill McEwen from his Sacramento speech a couple of months ago:

"I end up spending most of my time every day defending Amiga's trademarks and in-fighting between certain companies instead of concentrating on what we should be."

True, Amiga has had little to do with the physical development of either package (A1/OS4) but... As the owner of the trademarks, licenses, etcetera, they are constantly pulled into these problems by the likes of Hyperion, H&P, Bernie, etc (it's not the fault of a couple of those named).

[System]

Ok, But that (Bill) is just one person... =)

But I don't really know if Bill himself are developing anything? I guess he has the staff to do the developing and him running around trying to keep everything floating (meetings and more meetings).
So I don't see that effecting ADE/AA if AInc just have the funds to continue.

/Menthos

[System]

Ok, But that (Bill) is just one person... =)

I'm not suggesting that Bill does EVERYTHING around there, but anyone will tell you that nothing gets done without Bill's input.  He is, after all, the "benevolent dictator" and from what others tell me, that's a very true statement.

[amigacooke]

I'm not suggesting that Bill does EVERYTHING around there, but anyone will tell you that nothing gets done without Bill's input. He is, after all, the "benevolent dictator" and from what others tell me, that's a very true statement.

Like yourself Wayne I was excited by the prospect held out by Amiga Inc, but that has not been delivered, nor does it look like being delivered.

I can not go out and buy in the UK anything that runs AmigaDE. After the initial release of games there has been nothing more. Where are all the developers?  Where are all the games and applications?

It was a great dream, spoilt not by AmigaOS4 and the AmigaOne, but by the collapse of funding for technology companies.

[HyperionMP]

>True, Amiga has had little to do with the physical >development of either package (A1/OS4) but... As the >owner of the trademarks, licenses, etcetera, they are >constantly pulled into these problems by the likes of >Hyperion, H&P, Bernie, etc (it's not the fault of a couple of those named).

Let me tell you something Wayne: Hyperion has both a trademark and OS license.

We DO NOT require any assistance from Amiga to protect these licenses as under the law we have full standing to act against anybody who infringes upon these licenses.

It's entirely Amiga's choice that they want to protect the trademarks and IP they acquired for 4.5 million dollars against unauthorised use.

In fact, if they failed to do so, they would never find any investors willing to invest in them.

The first order of business of any IT company is to protect its intangible assets.

[HyperionMP]

>It was a great dream, spoilt not by AmigaOS4 and the >AmigaOne, but by the collapse of funding for technology >companies.

Finally somebody with a clear grasp of the situation.

AmigaOS 4 and the AmigaOne project do not soak up any  significant amount of resources from Amiga.

I also find Wayne's contention that the "silent majority" was hoping for the AmigaDE rather than OS 4 to be quite off the mark.

Maybe in the US where nearly all Amiga users have another x86 based box (like Wayne himself) but certainly not in Europe where a number of people still use their Amiga's as their main machine.

And let's face reality: the Amiga market is a European affaire.