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Offline SystemTopic starter

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AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« on: August 14, 2002, 07:27:46 PM »
 From today, the 14th of August, the AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site is online.

Visit www.amigbg.com now and then for latest news about the activitites that will occur during the AONE event in Gothenburg on the 21st of September.

Welcome to Gothenburg in September to see the first new Amiga computer in ten years. Free entrance!
 :-D

/ Sharakmir

 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2002, 07:50:59 PM »
I hope you guys are lucky enough to see OS4 running on the A1!!!
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline Seehund

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2002, 09:31:37 PM »
redrumloa wrote:
Quote
I hope you guys are lucky enough to see OS4 running on the A1!!!


One can only hope. But I'm afraid the planned schedule mentions nothing about AmigaOS - so far.

Apart from the "developer version" of the "AmigaOne" motherboard, they also write about something they call "the new Amiga computer"!? I thought they would only show this POP motherboard as distributed by a licensee?
I hope it's a misprint or just Eyetech's confusing marketing that somehow would have sneaked its way in there, and that Amiga Inc. hasn't gone totally insane and fscked things up again by trying to build Amigas again. Wow, THAT would be a step backwards even from the current compulsory licensing idiocy.

:- P

Go away 1980s, you're dead, we don't want you back, the computing world has moved on!

Oh well, if AmigaOS isn't there it's still "free entrance" :D , so maybe they've got some sandwiches or something, and I haven't tried out the latest Debian Woody yet. :)
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Offline Coder

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2002, 10:08:46 PM »
No OS4 running there, period.

Coder
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Offline Seehund

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2002, 10:09:35 PM »
Quote
Oh well, if AmigaOS isn't there it's still "free entrance" :D , so maybe they've got some sandwiches or something, and I haven't tried out the latest Debian Woody yet. :)


HOLY CRAP!
There will be some *new* hardware shown after all:

Gunne Steen, GGS-Data on Ann.lu:

" This is a first announcement of the first showplace of the Pegasos-computer in Sweden and in Scandinavia.

Pegasos Gothenburg Show 2002 will be held on Sunday 22 September. On the show you will se Pegasos demonstrated and working for the first time here. Pegasos is a dual G3/G4/G5 MicroATX computer. At the moment it is possible to run either MorphOS or Linux operatingsystem on it. Organizer of the event is GGS-Data in co-operation with Thendic-France and betatesters of Pegasos from Sweden. Thendic as well as other important persons behind the Pegasos will join the show. More information will follow soon. Welcome ! Gunne Steen for GGS-Data"

I'll go just to see the fist-fight between Alan Redhouse and whoever will come from Thendic! :D

Oh yeah MorphOS will be demoed as well according to the comments on ANN (expect a flamewar because of the M-word). OK, personally I don't think a SuSE/Debian demo would have been all that exciting, but sheeit, this will be interesting!
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Offline Coder

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2002, 10:11:54 PM »
Quote
I'll go just to see the fist-fight between Alan Redhouse and whoever will come from Thendic! :D


My money is on Alan. Put me down for 50 Euro that Alan has them on the ground in 5 minutes.

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Offline Seehund

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2002, 10:19:05 PM »
Quote
My money is on Alan.


Mine too. He shows the finesse of Mike Tyson when he addresses his potential customers in public. :)
But who am I to speak, I'm just one of the trolls, pirates and whiners or whatever we are today... ;)

I hope the similarly PR-talented Bill Buck will be in the other ring corner - a struggle of true giants! :D
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Offline Wittgenstein

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2002, 10:34:24 PM »
@ Seehund

Quote
There will be some *new* hardware shown after all:


At what point is the Pegasos newer compared to the A1?

Newer cpu? Nah, the A1-XE can take the same CPU as the Pegasos (and I havnt seen any working CPU-module to the Pegasos other than the one with the G3.)

Newer design? No, cant see anything here. A1 designed by MAI, Pegasos designed by Bplan and they are both targeting the same kind of CPU. A1 is following the POP specification but I'm not sure if Pegasos does (cant fint anything about on Bplans site).

Newer what?!? Can you please enlighten me?

/W
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Offline Seehund

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2002, 10:45:59 PM »
Quote
At what point is the Pegasos newer compared to the A1?


The TeronCX which is the little changed basis for the board Eyetech is buying was sold in its first version in August 2001, and developed before that.
The Pegasos is a newly designed piece of kit, never released to the market in any version.


(And no, I don't want to take part in some stupid flamewar over trademarks. Those who feel the need to belong to and fight for a "camp" based on such things can stuff it. It's just hardware. Buy what you want).

Edit: Oh, you mentioned the A1-XE (currently known as Mai TeronPX). Yeah, I suppose that's contemporary to the Pegasos. But AFAI can see no TeronPX will be in Gothenburg, and I was talking about what will be shown here.

Edit 2: I see that even this news item labels one motherboard as "the new Amiga", so together with the "AmigaOne" trademark it's easy to understand why there's confusion.
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Offline Kronos

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2002, 11:20:50 PM »
@Wittgenstein

The Pegasos is "newer" (not really in age) because they took
the TeronCX-design, and changed it nearly 100% to get the max. out
of the chips, while the A1 is just a slighly updated version of
the TeronCX.

The A1 is NOT a PoP-board as Hyperion plan to remove the OF-BIOS
(whicj was extremly buggy) and replace it with OpenBoot (sp),
which makes the whole board non-PoP.

The Pegasos is a PoP-baord with a self-developed OF-BIOS which
includes support for FFS-partitions (to boot from) and
"Disk_on_Chip" devices (probraly the 1st step to the eclipsis).

Oh and yes Pegsos+G4 is a reality, but only with the ZIF-carrier
and a G4-ZIF atm.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline Wittgenstein

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2002, 11:27:55 PM »
@ Seehund
Quote
The TeronCX which is the little changed basis for the board Eyetech is buying was sold in its first version in August 2001, and developed before that.


Hmm, but that means that even the predecessor to the A1 (which is in  fact a evaluation board from the make of the chipset, i.e. no product for the masses, only potential buyers of their chips like Bplan and Eyetech) is newer than the Pegasos since Bplan released the pegasos Feb 2001.

Ok, enough nitpicking, but do you  think the pegasos design is _NEW_? Do you think that Bplan only made Pegasos on ideas based by their own staff? Both the A1 and the Pegaos are based on _old_ tech and _old_ ideas and a release of one platform x month before the other one doesnt make it old. A1 and Pegasos can only be called new relative to the oldgen Amigas.

I also have a question about your petition. Your petition says that  

Quote
To us, the undersigned, it seems like you are overlooking the fact that you don't design or sell any hardware of your own, like e.g. Apple. Independent hardware designers and distributors naturally have no reason to get themselves and their products licensed and bundled with another company's OS, unless that OS is as dominating as Windows. Just look at the recent bplan GmbH Pegasos(TM) debacle for one concrete example of what could have been avoided if the compulsory licensing and OS/hardware bundling hadn't existed. Instead, we who wish to buy and use AmigaOS just lost a hardware option, the bplan company lost the entire AmigaOS market and you lost the Pegasos market to competing PPC operating systems.


My questions are:
1. You say that Amiga stops the possibility to run AOS4 on other hardware platforms (likte other POP-card).  You cant just move the binaries and runt it. The "porting" may be easy but the bugtesting will take a lot of time and resources. Who are going to write the drivers for those POP-boards (Bplan, Barbie,...)? When will it be done? Before or after the realease of AOS4 to the A1? If it is after, how do you know that Ainc isnt planing this?

2. You compare the A1 to the Pegasos. But since the Pegasos is a closed platform (it might follow the POP-specification but it is still closed), I dont see how we can excpect them to support it. Any comment about this?

3. Name one POP-compatible platform that is open, available and realistic for AOS4.

I ask this questions since I must find your petition sound to sign it (the biggest logic flaw is point three which fails to be constructive). The way it is stated now, it is much the same as asking Ainc to stop the time.

/W
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Offline Kronos

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2002, 11:34:47 PM »
@Wittgenstein

>2....

The Pegasos is uses the same northbridge as the A1, on the southbrigde
is a standard VIA-model (one generation ahead of the one use in the A1).

Linux does run on that board.

When Hyperion (are able to) buy a Pegasos, they have the full spec of
the main chips, and an open-source OS to look at.
Thats more than they have on the CS-PPC.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline Wittgenstein

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2002, 12:03:07 AM »
@ Kronos
Quote

The Pegasos is "newer" (not really in age) because they took
the TeronCX-design, and changed it nearly 100% to get the max. out
of the chips, while the A1 is just a slighly updated version of
the TeronCX.


Or as a A1-supporter would say:
A1 is "newer" (not really in age) because MAI took the TeronCX-design and optimized it to get max of the chips, while the peagsos is just a modified version of TeronCX.

I want facts Kronos. Do you have a benchmark that sais where A1 is behind the Pegasos? Why would the maker of the chip create bottlenecks where the guys at Bplan doesnt?

Quote

The A1 is NOT a PoP-board as Hyperion plan to remove the OF-BIOS
(whicj was extremly buggy) and replace it with OpenBoot (sp),
which makes the whole board non-PoP.


Strange, the POP-specifications I have worked with (1.0, 0.1) doesnt say anything about the BIOS. Maybe you are confusing it with the CHRP (aka PPCP) which does (there are lots of stuff from Apple in CHRP and the Open Firmware is one of them).

Quote
The Pegasos is a PoP-baord with a self-developed OF-BIOS which
includes support for FFS-partitions (to boot from) and
"Disk_on_Chip" devices (probraly the 1st step to the eclipsis).


Nice, but why are they shy when they talk about the chipset and their hardware solutions?

Quote
The Pegasos is a PoP-baord with a self-developed OF-BIOS which
includes support for FFS-partitions (to boot from) and
"Disk_on_Chip" devices (probraly the 1st step to the eclipsis).


This is nice. Only flaw is that the Open Firmware specifications is a little bit old. I dont think much has happend since Apple left CHRP and POP was borned but I might be wrong.

Quote
Oh and yes Pegsos+G4 is a reality, but only with the ZIF-carrier and a G4-ZIF atm.


Yes, but our definition of reality isnt the same. I dont think Bplan can get any G4s (not in large quantities) since even Apple still has problem getting them so Pegasos+G4 is as much reality as the A1-XE.

/W
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Offline Wittgenstein

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2002, 12:05:57 AM »
Quote

When Hyperion (are able to) buy a Pegasos, they have the full spec of
the main chips, and an open-source OS to look at.
Thats more than they have on the CS-PPC.


Ok, thanks. This clarifies the second point.

/W
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Offline Seehund

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Re: AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2002, 01:26:29 AM »
Wittgenstein:

Quote
Hmm, but that means that even the predecessor to the A1 (which is in fact a evaluation board from the make of the chipset, i.e. no product for the masses, only potential buyers of their chips like Bplan and Eyetech) is newer than the Pegasos since Bplan released the pegasos Feb 2001.


Nope, anyone could buy a TeronCX in August 01.
From your URL: "bplan GmbH announces that the first Pegasos prototypes are now available. The current prototypes will be used for internal testing and verification of system software, and are not for public release."
Photos and specs of those prototypes (or maybe they were later prototypes, can't remember now) have been shown and they were quite different from what we see today.

Quote
Ok, enough nitpicking, but do you think the pegasos design is _NEW_?


No, only in comparison to the Teron/A1 boards, and that they have not been commercially available for sale yet.

Quote
Both the A1 and the Pegaos are based on _old_ tech and _old_ ideas and a release of one platform x month before the other one doesnt make it old.


Yeah, there might be nothing new (as in: not seen in other hardware or specs before) or revolutionary about either mobo, but chronologically the Pegasos implementation of existing standards is newer than that of the TeronCX/A1G3SE, and it does use more modern components. Anyway, I'm interested to see it (especially running a new... ahem... ;) ...an OS that I haven't used) and maybe get to talk to some people who are involved in the project.

Oooh, a petition-thread! ;)

1: Primarily it would be AI's/Hyperion's responsibility to port their product to as much hardware as possible, it would be in their interest, third party hardware vendors won't care about AmigaOS (or MorphOS for that matter, before some trademarkist starts shouting "MorphOS troll" or something).
Otherwise it could be anyone really, if AI/Hyperion feels it wouldn't be worth their (Hyperion's) while.
There's a thread on MooBunny right now about this where I have tried to elaborate on this. Follow this link, it's too much to copy and paste out of its context.

2: See Kronos' reply. And someone who sells an OS of their own is even less likely to apply for a license for the privilege of  bundling somebody else's OS than "independent" hardware vendors are (and they are not likely to do it either).

3: First of all, this is not just about POP or "open hardware", it's about any hardware that AmigaOS could be made to run on with reasonable effort from Hyperion or a third party. Old, current and future.
But OK then, as for currently available POP hardware: Pegasos, TeronCX and its derivative, Inguard's Phoenix. But, again, this is not just about POP hardware, and it's not just about currently available such either, so question 3 isn't all that interesting IMO. I used the Pegasos as one current, concrete example in the petition. In retrospect maybe I should have left that out, but sometimes you have to spell things out for some of your readers.

Quote
(the biggest logic flaw is point three which fails to be constructive). The way it is stated now, it is much the same as asking Ainc to stop the time.


How so? I'm not saying that "at the day of release of AmigaOS 4.0 you must provide versions for AmigaOnes, PowerMacs, PowerBooks, Pegasoses, Terons, Phoenixes, Barbies, Xs, Ys, Zs...".

Basically I'm saying "Don't exclude any viable hardware option by default for no technical reason, AmigaOS needs all the hardware it can get, leave the field open and by all means go ahead with licensing - but don't make it compulsory and a prerequisite for AmigaOS to ever have even a chance to be considered to be ported to any hardware option".

Have you read the stuff at http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk ? More details and attempts at explanations of my reasoning there.
(ยค#%&!!! The Portland monkeys seem to have fscked up things over there again. Hope it'll be back to normal soon.)

Edit: Doh! Forgot the MooBunny link.
Edit 2: A mirror site of amigapop.8bit.co.uk.
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