the AmigaOS 4.0 Features have been revealed!

[System]

I think this kind of wraps it up.  This is an extract of the phone interview with Thoms Frieden of Hyperion.  Also taken from the AmiWest 2002 transcripts.

T(thomas Frieden): Well, yeah, just recently we finished the ExecSG kernel. Well, "finished" is not really correct, we finished it in a state that is more or less the same [unintelligible] more than the original Exec. But right now we're also updating the memory subsystem, because we now have a purely physical memory system, but what we want to do is, we want to make the memory system virtual... Hello?

and soon after in the conversation, this . . .

T: Well, yeah, in the original concept we wanted to base OS4 mainly on emulation. For example, we wanted to have a purely native PPC kernel, but [unintelligible]  most of the modules as 68k and emulate them. But we found out that this solution is not the optimal solution. Of course it's not optimal, but it's lacking in a lot of parts... Some of the responsiveness that was one of the cornerstones of the Amiga operating system was lost due to this emulation. We decided that most of the important stuff has to be PPC as well. Additionally, for the first, we wanted to have a rather simple virtual memory system, something like VMM, more of... more like an add-on to the original system, but in the meantime we found out that even that would be not... It would really make the whole system more [unintelligible] , so we decided to go for a real virtual addressing scheme, and that is what we are currently working on [unintelligible] back to Exec.

Right.  So what does all this mean?  I guess taking my 2 posts together, and making some deductions about what was said we have 3 conclusions:

1/. ExecSG will definately be ported to PPC native as portable C(?).
2/. ExecSG is either not finished (still in MC68k) or is going to be used in OS 4.0 in a "good enough" state (also MC68k).
3/. *If* ExecSG gets used in a "good enough" state in OS4.0 (as MC68k), then no-one has told us *when* the PPC native version of ExecSG will ship, or if it will ship as an update (kernel patch?) or as an OS revision. (I prefer the former!)

Any opinions ppl?

[xeron]

My opinion is that instead of inviting people to guess what Hyperion are up to, we should just wait and see.

[tonyw]

The feature list, like ALL feature lists, started out in life as a wish list, then was trimmed to become the specification. The status we see here has elements of the original wish list in it still.

The confusion arises from the mixed tenses - what started out as "should" became "will", then "is" or "has". Only if someone continuously updates the status will it read properly from day to day. We can't be sure which parts of the list have been done and which haven't - the list is probably obsolete now, already.

Don't panic, all development proceeds this way. Pity the poor technical writer who is given a folder full of data like this and has to massage it into a lucid and accurate story.

OT: My wife and I are off on a driving holiday, leaving on Saturday. If nothing goes wrong we should be away for 6-8 weeks. I will expect you guys and gals to keep the pressure up so that the AmigaOne is all finished and ready for me to order on my return  :-D

Have a good one

tony

[Step]

My conclusions on the material is that:

1. ExecSG is a native PPC product.
2. It is not entirely completed because of additions made to it (the mem stuff).
3. The 68k emulation idea was (early ?) abandoned due to it being too slow and unefficient.

When it comes to the browser issue, i must say that i am a bit disapointed, a mozilla build would have been much better.
But then again this could be done later on by others aswell.

[Kay]

Sounds good, now only one question remains: When will the damn thing be released? I need a faster computer, and I need it several months ago. I just hope Hyperion can finish the OS really soon, so that I can get one. I'd hate to have to get a Wintendo, but unless an upgrade path for my miggy materializes soon, I might just have to... :-/

Kay

[HyperionMP]

ExecSG was always planned as a fully PPC native Exec replacement.

Thomas Frieden basically took the original Exec which was in 68K ASM and re-implemented it completely in C whilst improving on the original design in the process.

C source-code can obviously be compiled for PPC.

What we are doing now is adding "virtual addressing".

This was not planned originally but the benefits of this are so important that we decided to go ahead and do it.

Benefits include things like less memory fragmentation, faster and more efficient memory allocation and de-allocation, much more robust virtual memory implementation and finally automatic stack enlargement.

Between 30 to 50% of all crashes on the Amiga are due to programs running out of stack-space.

With OS 4, this won't happen anymore as the stack can be automatically enlarged when the system detects a program is about to run out.

[Coder]

What we are doing now is adding "virtual addressing".

That is a great thing. :-) We sure do not want a crashy system.

Coder

[hnl_dk]

Between 30 to 50% of all crashes on the Amiga are due to programs running out of stack-space.

With OS 4, this won't happen anymore as the stack can be automatically enlarged when the system detects a program is about to run out.

Thats what I call a great feature :-D  :-o  :-D

[jd997uk]

Thomas Frieden basically took the original Exec which was in 68K ASM and re-implemented it completely in C whilst improving on the original design in the process.

End of conversation. The Guv has spoken and no more arguing. ExecSG IS now ported to C

-john
ps I mailed Ben for clarification on a couple of other points. I'll post up later as and when he approves the wording to ensure that it doesn't add to further confusion.

[Coder]

@jd997uk

ps I mailed Ben for clarification on a couple of other points. I'll post up later as and when he approves the wording to ensure that it doesn't add to further confusion.

Looking forward to that. :-)

Coder

[The_Editor]

Re  .. Datatypes

Whats gonna happen to the Jpg Datatype (was there gonna be one?) Now that there is a licensing issue with the new owners of the Jpg patent??

[Etho]

Will IBrowse be a full version or a Special Edition? A modern OS should have a fully functional Web Browser.

[HeUnique]

I wish there was a port of XFree86 just like A Mac OS X port (in Darwin) but accelerated. This would give an instant few thousands application to be available for Amiga as it hits the stores...

Of course - once you have X support, it wouldn't take very long to port either Mozilla, Open Office or KDENOX (Konqueror without the full KDE Libs, very tiny and got all the KHTML implementations)...

Wishful thinking? if there will be a commercial one - I'll buy it!

Hetz

[redrumloa]

Will IBrowse be a full version or a Special Edition? A modern OS should have a fully functional Web Browser.

Yeah thank you MicroSloth, not! Where do you draw the line and stop adding "features" to an OS? There is a reason the cost of M$ products is skyrocketing.

Likely the version that ships with OS4.0 will be a limited version.

[blubbe]

Benefits include things like less memory fragmentation, faster and more efficient memory allocation and de-allocation, much more robust virtual memory implementation and finally automatic stack enlargement.

Between 30 to 50% of all crashes on the Amiga are due to programs running out of stack-space.

With OS 4, this won't happen anymore as the stack can be automatically enlarged when the system detects a program is about to run out.

Well, programs running out of stack is a problem caused by sloppy programmers, it shouldnt have
to happen at all. Better spend time on learning people
to handle recursive algorithms properly.

It is strange people seems to have such a problem with using StackSwap()

I hope it doesnt add too much overhead.

[blubbe]

Alternatively, using languages that are safe..

Which brings up a question: will SHEEP make it to
AmigaOS ?