Rats leaving a sinking ship, or something else?

[greenboy]

uncharted : IIRC Bill Buck has admitted (on ANN I think) that this is nothing more than a nusance suit.

Has he... I seem to have missed that. I've never heard him talk about it that way in all our hours on the phone, or in hundreds of emails.

Despite everyone at Genesi/Phoenix saying otherwise, they are despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand.

Don't drag Phoenix into this. You seem to be very comfortable making statements and assumptions that appear to be meant to support antagonism - like that "It's designed to kick Amiga while it's down" ... and it's rarely ever that simple.

Phoenix does not give a crap about the Amiga name, collectively - or individually, it seems. On the basis of posts on Phoenix lists, most people could barely care less about having the Amiga name, never talking about it, never mentioning it. The few who have ever even brought the subject up seem to think the name has been tainted, perhaps irretrievably. But the general tenor is that we just don't care - we have better things to talk about and care about.

I'll also say that personally I do not care about the Amiga name. I never did. Even before the current Amiga Inc got a hold of it. I like the experiences the original Amiga has made possible, and I like many things about the way the Amiga OS has performed when compared to other OSes of same historical period, and continuance and improvement of that type of OS experience is something I have cared about.

And I like many of the developers and have felt it was a shame they have been neglected during Gateway days, and seen what little market there has been erode further. Thus my involvement, thus Phoenix.

I still think the Name is largely immaterial. And just as I said during the final days of Gatemiga when Phoenix was formed, those who think the Name matters more than the possibility of increased opportunities for developers and ultimately users - well, they are often a burden that I do not especially see much actual value in. Fanaticism and twisted political/cultural correctness has done much to destroy opportunities and the value of the brand.

Note: I am NOT against the brand, if at some point in the future it is possible for Phoenix to work with developers who work with Amiga-branded products I will treat them as I treat any other developers who show positive and constructive attitudes.

Probably the last thing I'll say in this thread: Genesi is not "despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand." There is no desperation involved. Genesi's main concern is to see progressive improvements come of the potential that is still to be found - if you look REALLY hard - in this community. By example in finance, partnership, sponsoring and effort, Genesi is showing more leadership than the moribund Amino/Amiga Inc promised so long ago but neglected in a hundred different ways.

Thus, Phoenix's involvement with Genesi.

[AmiGod]

(The relevant documents are available on Rich Woods' page, but I won't link to it as it contains material I do not believe should be made public. The documents are also available direct from the court clerk, of course)

Hi bhoggett,

Thank you for the update, but until I see the real documents, straight from the court clerk's hands, I consider anything Rich Woods has to say or reveal to be a figment of his own imagination.  He has absolutely no credibility in my books.  Especially in this day and age where Photoshop can manipulate said documents.  [This is my opinion, and not a trolling.]

That being said, how would one gain access to the real documents directly from the court clerk?

AmiGod

[bhoggett]

@AmiGod

I don't particularly like Woods either, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of him lying or falsifying documents.

As for the court, you'll notice FarQuad checked the validity of those documents by ringing them up. I'm sure if you drop him a PM he will tell you how to do this yourself.

I'm sure all the contact information is available on the Web somewhere, but I'm not about to do the investigative work myself at this point.

[Bobsonsirjonny]

Paul_Gadd wrote:
- a troll for a troll: edited by mikeymike

Damn - I would have been interested to see what his reply was..

Anyway, my point was not to troll, but to put things in perspective. Amiga inc are only guilty of incompetence - I dont think that they are "Criminals" or intended to screw anyone over.

[Bobsonsirjonny]

meerschaum wrote:
- troll related quote removed by mikeymike -

no...is that the best YOU can do... make fun of a guys handle?...why is that? because you cant argue the points he makes?... about Amiga.inc? your fan company?

Not at all. My point is everyone is over emotive - he was calling Amiga inc criminals - yet his handles name sake had sex with children - which is a totallly abhorant, evil  crime. Far worse than not sending me a T-shirt..

For the record, I was not accusing Paul_Gadd of what the real Paul Gadd did.

[dammy]

by Bobsonsirjonny on 2003/9/29 14:38:25

Anyway, my point was not to troll, but to put things in perspective. Amiga inc are only guilty of incompetence - I dont think that they are "Criminals" or intended to screw anyone over.

Perhaps under UK law, but under US laws (well US Code) I have very little doubt they have not broken several laws.

Dammy

[Bobsonsirjonny]

Fair rnough - if they have broken the law, ignorance is no defence. It's the hate distributed at either side is pointless. People use these big over emotive words - when there are far worse things to get on the attack about.  Really people  should just wait and see - let it all unfold.

[mikeymike]

dammy, double negative equals a positive :-)

[uncharted]

greenboy wrote:

uncharted : IIRC Bill Buck has admitted (on ANN I think) that this is nothing more than a nusance suit.

Has he... I seem to have missed that. I've never heard him talk about it that way in all our hours on the phone, or in hundreds of emails.

Really? Take a look at this...

The whole AmigaDE lawsuit was just a means to shut Bill McEwen up and force Amiga Inc. into a settlement that might include us obtaining the rights to the Amiga trademarks and the classic OS.  Amiga Inc. had no reason to spread all the FUD they did officially about MorphOS, particularly after we tried so hard to help them in 2000 and 2001.  McEwen's 1 September "we will shut you down" threat was just more talk and on about the same level as the coupon scam.  We could not allow him to continue to do this and took action.  It worked.  He is gone.  

That was taken from http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1051380286&category=news&start=51 if you don't believe me.

Despite everyone at Genesi/Phoenix saying otherwise, they are despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand.

Don't drag Phoenix into this. You seem to be very comfortable making statements and assumptions that appear to be meant to support antagonism - like that "It's designed to kick Amiga while it's down" ... and it's rarely ever that simple.

I never dragged phoenix into working so closely with Genesi, nor did I put a gun to your head and make you go around posting with the kind of authority you do.  Sometimes reading your posts is like reading a press release.

What's wrong with my statements? It's just a figure of speech for goodness' sake. Oh, yeah, and it can be that simple, if you want to hide it behind clever wording, or whatever, that's your choice, but I'm bored with the ####.  I say it as I see it.

Probably the last thing I'll say in this thread: Genesi is not "despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand." There is no desperation involved.

more of that same posting on ANN....

  Back to the lawsuit...the worst case for us would be enforcing our license agreement that would require Amiga Inc. to integrate DE for use in some way with the Pegasos which would then allow us to use the trademarks (as there are some that would prefer to call the Pegasos an Amiga).  Again, no big deal...users/customers can/should have the choice to call their computer whatever they want and do whatever they want with it....;-)

And this after all those statements that they didn't want Amiga branding for MOS/Pegasos.

Genesi's main concern is to see progressive improvements come of the potential that is still to be found - if you look REALLY hard - in this community.

By example in finance, partnership, sponsoring and effort, Genesi is showing more leadership than the moribund Amino/Amiga Inc promised so long ago but neglected in a hundred different ways.

Again with the PR speak, and you wondered why I lumped you and Genesi together in the original posting. :-?

[greenboy]

uncharted,

As I said in my post Phoenix does not have any interest in the Amiga name. You brought Phoenix into the discussion here seeming to claim that it does. But it does not. Trying to spin that into a PR-speak connection afterwards while ignoring what I said about mine and Phoenix's lack of interest in the Name shows that when you "call it as you see it " you apparently also choose to filter out what others say if it doesn't fit what you want to see.

Another misdirection: "I never dragged phoenix into working so closely with Genesi" does not even fit the context of your orignal statement - it's purpose of making the association was to attribute something to Phoenix which simply is not true.

As far as your BBRV quote from ANN, it does not really prove what you say it proves, as I see it. The post seems to list several reasons, and other BBRV posts have also raised other reasons. Those reasons do not constitute a "nuisance suit" - unless one throws away quite a few phrases that speak of motivations as well as business and contract.

Your more personal comments about my posting style are simply irrelevant to the topic, and as in the past you seem to be rather antagonistic... If I speak with authority it is because I present my observations and experiences in my style, usually without trying to go inflammatory. That does not constitute PR, though I do try to choose my words so as not to splatter invective and hearsay into a discussion when I am at my best ;  }

[Kronos]

@Andy

McBill started that "get legal or shut down"-BS, couldn't follow
through and now he gets what he asked for ......

THOUGH LUCK !!!

As for the "name":

I see little use for it,as Genesi allready has allthey wanted/needed from
this community (read developers and early adaptors), and those who
are left, wouldn't follow the name in that case.....

Actually those would probraly mean more trouble in such a case.

The name isn't really that valuable for marketing outside this community,
and other brands may be easier to get.

[mikeymike]

THOUGH LUCK !!!

Amazing how a spelling mistake can draw all attention from the original point :-)

[Paul_Gadd]

yet his handles name sake had sex with children - which is a totallly abhorant, evil crime. Far worse than not sending me a T-shirt..

Glitter never ever was charged,convicted of having sexual intercourse with a child, both women was exposed to be money grabbing liars, so please at least find out info before you type this nonsense.

As for Amiga Inc they deserve the name criminals for what they have done, what else would you call them?

Over a year has passed and the AmigaONE is out so there is no excuses or defence what will change the fact Amiga Inc has took peoples money and delivered piss all, if you know different please tell us we will be happy to hear about it.

Is this about just the coupons? no it is the fact a company has treated people like dirt, if this was Genesi or any other company you guys would rip in to them.

[bhoggett]

Glitter never ever was charged,convicted of having sexual intercourse with a child, both women was exposed to be money grabbing liars, so please at least find out info before you type this nonsense.

Let's not pussy-foot around here. The guy is a despicable pervert and that's all there is to it. He did collect paedophilia off the internet, and there are no two ways about it. There's no comparing him to Amiga Inc. Amiga Inc may be crooks in many people's eyes, but Gadd is a pervert and a danger to society and children. If they locked him up for ever it would be too short a sentence.

His music or artistic achievemnts are irrelevant.

[bloodline]

bhoggett wrote:

Glitter never ever was charged,convicted of having sexual intercourse with a child, both women was exposed to be money grabbing liars, so please at least find out info before you type this nonsense.

Let's not pussy-foot around here. The guy is a despicable pervert and that's all there is to it. He did collect paedophilia off the internet, and there are no two ways about it. There's no comparing him to Amiga Inc. Amiga Inc may be crooks in many people's eyes, but Gadd is a pervert and a danger to society and children. If they locked him up for ever it would be too short a sentence.

His music or artistic achievemnts are irrelevant.

So we all agree?  Great muscian, crap person... Sorry, cats... pigeons... significant throwing force... I couldn't resist :lol:

[uncharted]

greenboy wrote:

As I said in my post Phoenix does not have any interest in the Amiga name. You brought Phoenix into the discussion here seeming to claim that it does. But it does not. Trying to spin that into a PR-speak connection afterwards while ignoring what I said about mine and Phoenix's lack of interest in the Name shows that when you "call it as you see it " you apparently also choose to filter out what others say if it doesn't fit what you want to see.

Had your posting been soley about Phoenix's postition with regards to the Amiga branding then fair enough.  However it soon turned into a posting about Genesi.  In fact your first comment tried to counter my comment about the lawsuit by highlighting your close ties (and by extention your authority) to Genesi.

So you cry foul when I bring up your close ties with Genesi, and yet you use it as a basis for your arguments?

Another misdirection: "I never dragged phoenix into working so closely with Genesi" does not even fit the context of your orignal statement - it's purpose of making the association was to attribute something to Phoenix which simply is not true.

I'm not ashamed to admit I haven't got the foggiest what you are going on about. :-?

As far as your BBRV quote from ANN, it does not really prove what you say it proves, as I see it. The post seems to list several reasons, and other BBRV posts have also raised other reasons. Those reasons do not constitute a "nuisance suit" - unless one throws away quite a few phrases that speak of motivations as well as business and contract.

When a suit is "just a means to shut Bill McEwen up and force Amiga Inc. into a settlement that might include us obtaining the rights to the Amiga trademarks and the classic OS." I'd say that would be a nuisence suit.  

Your more personal comments about my posting style are simply irrelevant to the topic, and as in the past you seem to be rather antagonistic...

They weren't intended to be personal, just an observation.  They aren't irrlevant, they were my explanation of why I mentioned Phoenix alongside Genesi.

Please post examples of my antagonistic behaviour. It's so little I post on here that I can't remember what I said where.  Most of my postings on here recently have been help, information or general chit-chat and totally devoid of politics.

Or is it just the case that it's easier to try and label me a troll rather than engage in a proper discussion.

If I speak with authority it is because I present my observations and experiences in my style, usually without trying to go inflammatory. That does not constitute PR, though I do try to choose my words so as not to splatter invective and hearsay into a discussion when I am at my best ;  }

Making a point of your connections, talking about another company with the kind of insights you claim to have all smacks of PR to me.  From what I see whether you want to or not you function as PR to Genesi - always there to the defence, always there with Phoenix's spin on events when Genesi/MOS/pegasos come up as the topic of conversation.