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Author Topic: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical  (Read 15390 times)

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Chathurawind

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2002, 08:24:51 PM »
Well when OS 4.0 comes out I'll be running it but I will also still be working on this machine (A1200 with soon to be Coldfire replacing its 040). How about we show you what it can do first. As for OS 5.0, that doesn't bother me - when AMIGA Inc get round to making it I'll buy it. When OS 3.9 becomes too tired I suspect we'll introduce AROS. The beauty of it is that we can slowly move it piece by pieve because of the 68k emulation layer.

Thankyou for your support coder, its appreciated and makes all the difference.

People don't think this is something that won't happen - as I have already said we have a very large AMIGA company (you will all have heard of them but I won't name them here just yet) offering us help and its great to see, they have everything we need to complete this project.

PJ Matthews
 

Offline Coder

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2002, 08:34:35 PM »
Hi PJ,

I am checking it out a bit now. Very interesting. I mean it. Just curious, how will the payment go if you want to buy it? I mean for us wanting to help you out.

Coder
Check it out - I found the ass-end!
 

Chathurawind

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2002, 09:09:32 PM »
You just buy a processor from us so we can buy a batch of 24 and then you'll have a processor for when we release the accelerator boards or further down the line, the actual new AMIGA. Now I have been getting mixed messages from Melencia or however you spell their name. Olivers been offered help, I've effectively been told to drop my idea - hopefully its two different people but if not hes got split personality. They may beable to sell us the processors individually, if so you could always become a tester, or coder...

PJ

 

Offline Fats

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2002, 09:28:07 PM »
Quote
I think AROS is great though, why AMIGA Inc just didn't have those guys move it I will never know.


Thanks for the compliment.
The reason is that Amiga Inc. is not ready for Open Source. (And given the latest Status Update they probably never will be) There were some discussions with Gary about using AROS in Amiga Inc. but they wanted the privilege to release it under a non-Open Source license but the majority of the AROS developers were against it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with this thinking of Amiga Inc. It's just that it is incompatible with the AROS license.
Also AROS was evolving at a slow pace at that time which was also not good for marketing purposes either.
Trust me...                                              I know what I\'m doing
 

Offline jdiffend

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2002, 10:05:58 PM »
Quote
How fast is 68K emulator running on top of ColdFire?
Usually emulator efficiency is only 10% / less.


FWIW, it is not an emulator like we are used to seeing.  It is an illegal instruction trap where only unsupported 68k instructions/address modes are emulated so most instructions execute at the rate of one per clock cycle.  V4e and especially V5 cores will execute more than one instruction per clock cycle.  

I built a table that shows which instructions are on what processors including all Coldfire cores.  With the 5407 or higher most instructions are supported by the core.
 

Offline JamesR

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2002, 10:07:47 PM »
Honestly, guys, I just don't see this working. The only reason I think Amiga Inc. has a prayer is that they are trying to move the Amiga name into new, VIABLE markets. The Amiga community is NOT a viable market and hasn't been for some time. If it's a pet project of yours, cool, but I know from personal experience how easy it is to start a project and how hard it can be to finish it.

My example would be when I started the mozAmiga project (at mozamiga.mozdev.org), hoping to be a project manager for some Amiga coders to port Mozilla to the new Amiga. Did I get e-mails of support and offers of help from the community? Sure I did! Did I get any real coding help? No!

Honestly, most of your support e-mails from ANN will probably wind up to be blowing smoke up your rear end, and most won't put up like they say they will now. It's a lot easier to e-mail someone and say "I'd buy it!" than it is to actually cough up the cash when the product comes out.

Then consider that your hardware will NOT be mass-produced simply because of the miniscule market your making it for (a fraction of the total Classic Amiga community, which can't even support itself in total, much less in fractions). I, at least, don't want to pay top dollar for a souped-up old machine.

I think if you did manage to get a product out at some point, your initial product won't be capable of running new AmigaOne programs and will be released a good two years (according at least to one estimate in a post above) AFTER the AmigaOne is released. By then the only people who will care about a ColdFire Amiga will be the diehard "Classic or kill me" Amiga fanatics left in the community.

Really, I just don't see the point. But good luck!

James
James Russell
Editor - Amiga.org...
 

Chathurawind

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2002, 10:33:21 PM »
Gee man - your bitter at someone arn't you? Do we care if this thing never sees mass production? Nope. I mself doubt the AMIGA One in its present form will sell in any real quantity, sure more than us but not in huge amounts. I must stress again, this is completely different for another purpose.

PJ Matthews
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2002, 10:38:47 PM »
Don't worry PJ

I don't think your maschine is going to be a big succes but
what do i know  :-o  :-o

It's definitly a geek-maschine like the C=1 but could also aim at
a few serious people like the Atari-Coldfire.

BtW: Any idea how much this could cost ?
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline SystemTopic starter

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2002, 11:19:10 PM »
I'd imagine if put in a production run perhaps £100-£180. That would be with a processor, AGA chipset, chipram and some other stuff - but this is all guess work. I hope we can get a basic board under £100!

The Accelerators will be first out though - we'll try and keep those as cheap as possible.

PJ
 

Offline jdiffend

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2002, 11:25:03 PM »
Quote
Q ? Will I need new ROMs?
A ? I don?t see why you would, the system will think it has a true 68k CPU at its heart so you won?t need new ROMs and I?m betting a lot of your existing hardware will work also including the new PPC on a PCI card for the A4000.


I can tell you absolutely positively without a doubt  that you can't depend on the normal Amiga add on ROM method like you told me you planned to do.  I researched this before (lord knows I didn't want to rewrite the ROM) and found it wouldn't work.

I just verified my findings to be sure before saying anything.

Look at the Exec 1.2 dissasembly on Aminet.  The startup code that looks for the add on ROM executes an illegal Coldfire instruction before the jump to the new ROM.  

If you don't believe me check address FC00F4.  The very instruction that tests for the ROM isn't legal on any Coldfire cpu.

The existing ROM checks for an add on ROM like this:
FC00F4  cmp.w     #$1111,(A1)      ; If "1111" not found at F00000, then
FC00F8  bne.s     FC00FE            ;continue running below, else start
FC00FA  jmp       2(A1)           ; Jump to add on ROM

With portasm configured for the coldfire V4 this:
cmp.w #$1111,(A1)
translates to this:
   move.w    (a1),d0
   cmp.w     #0x1111,d0

I haven't decoded the 3.1 ROM but it is likely that it would test for an add on ROM in the same way.

At least some sort of patch to the existing ROM is needed and there are ways to do it and keep the existing ROM.

Did I mention that accessing the ROM through an accellerator port is slower than FLASH on the accellerator?

The solution I came up with was to make the standard Amiga ROM appear at a different address in memory so the initial FLASH startup code could copy it to flash, patch it and restart.  The patch would jump to the add on ROM code and skip the test completely.  I suggested this in July of last year. An alternative was to use a V4e part, copy the ROM to RAM, patch it there and run it from RAM.

Like I said, I spent a lot of time on this.
 

Offline SystemTopic starter

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2002, 11:41:25 PM »
Not valid - the emulation layer is in ROM so is active from the start, commands are patched from the start - I'm taking going through whats patched and whats not as we speak and will list my findings on my web site - I'll e-mail you with what I have and you can see wat you think.

PJ Matthews
 

Chathurawind

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2002, 02:33:47 AM »
Here is a thought...

Develop a PCI card fro the Amiga 1.

There is provision for a PCI card to connect a classic a1200 motherbord.

Why not put your coldfire chip, bios etc on a PCI card and do it better.

OS 4 will use your card to run calssic software and I beleve you can boot the PC to an original OS (3.9??) nad user the A1 borad as an accelerator.

Everyone will

Regards
Darren Thompson
darrent@senet.com.au
 

Chathurawind

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2002, 02:35:34 AM »
Repost minus obvious spelling blunders...

Here is a thought...

Develop a PCI card fro the Amiga 1.

There is provision for a PCI card to connect a classic A1200 motherbord.

Why not put your coldfire chip, bios etc on a PCI card and do it better.

OS 4 will use your card to run classic software and I beleve you can boot the PC to an original OS (3.9??) and use the A1 borad as an accelerator.

Everyone wins

Regards
Darren Thompson
darrent@senet.com.au
 

Offline SystemTopic starter

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2002, 02:46:30 AM »
You mean along the lines of the Inside out? Its a possibility - are you guys after one of these? Tell me people or you don't stand a chance of seeing one
 

Chathurawind

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2002, 06:59:49 AM »
Sorry I do not know what an inside out is(I'm new to the Amiga community)

Regards
Darren
 

Chathurawind

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #44 from previous page: April 19, 2002, 09:50:23 AM »
>doesn't have a Coldfire VP translator

Hi
From AMIGA SDK for Linux v.1.0 manual, page 148:
"Supported processor type: CPU #26 CF52XX"
Therefore it is possible to run AMIGA DE / AA on top of ColdFire CPU! :)